To be disappointed about the book?

[AnnaSewell]

My daughter is in her mid-twenties. For Xmas she bought me a slim paperback book. I thought at the time it was a fairly modest gift but thanked her and put it on one side.

This evening I picked it up to read. I found she had omitted to rub out the pencil price put in at the charity shop. The book had cost £2.49.

I would like to have been worth a tenner.

There's a few of you deliberately misunderstanding me. What I'm saying is have your opinions, but if you choose to argue with your children over them to the point they want to go no contact with you, don't whinge that they don't spend enough on your present.

For ANY opinion. Not just gender identity. Fall out with your kids all you want. Just don't then be mad that falling out means charity shop presents.

The difference in your story is that you had discussions. Not arguments and falling outs and months of no contact. There is a difference.

I don't know OP and obviously I'm not privy to the conversations which have gone on.

However, those on the side of the gender ideology perspective tend to have an all or nothing approach. Many, many women have been denounced as fascist bigots for refusing to believe that people can magically change sex, and for wanting boundaries around women's single sex spaces.

Compromising or agreeing to disagree is often not sufficient. The movement has done a very good job of convincing many young people that women who believe in sex-based rights are bigots who deserve to be ostracised. Even if it's their parents or close female relatives.

OP isn't the first woman to come onto MN and say that she's been cut off by her children because she refused to change her views on sex-based rights for women.

We don't know what happened here but those who believe in gender ideology often have an ideological fervour, and anything other than complete agreement means you're a right wing Nazi in their view. Up until the release of the Cass report, their mantra was #No Debate - which pretty much says it all.

If things played out with the OP and her DD as has been seen widely elsewhere, there's probably little OP could have done to persuade her DD that they could agree to disagree.

I don't want to derail the thread into a whole conversation about gender ideology but I don't think equating women's rights with homophobia or racism is helpful. With the Cass Report, the ban on puberty blockers, and today's announcement that the new NHS charter means trans women won't be allowed onto single sex wards, there seems to be a gradual awakening to the fact that women fighting for their rights to be identified via their sex had a valid point all along. So the answer to the point about where all this is leading is that maybe we're heading back to science-based facts, and where we originally started from!

I don't need to fall out with any family member over my views, but equally I don't think it's healthy or helpful to pretend to believe something that you don't. I have a couple of elderly family members who are racist, homophobic, and xenophobic based on historic attitudes that were prevalent in society during their lifetime, and while we always disagree, we have had many conversations where I've challenged them respectfully to prove their point/defend their views.

The issue with gender ideology is is that certain parties have brainwashed sections of society, particularly younger people, into believing that championing/protecting sex-based rights automatically makes you an evil person and that only complete agreement will suffice. And that's why gender ideology is so problematic and cult-like. And why it ends up in NC/low contact and charity shop presents.

What on earth does that have to do with this post? There is no mention of the OP's views regarding gender. Why are you bringing that up? I am absolutely not interested in anti trans rhetoric and will not engage in a discussion about it on this post. Please do not interact with me any further regarding this subject.

@Crispsandcola

how are @GirlyBassey and @SpidersAreShitheads posts anti trans?

@SpidersAreShitheads

Again, the difference is that you respectfully challenge and don't fall out. I am not discussing my opinion on gender ideology, or anything else. I'm just saying that if you can't have the discussion without it resulting in your children cutting you off, consider whether you want to have that discussion in the first place. But if you do want to do it, deal with the consequences of that, whatever they are, rather than moaning to the internet about your Christmas present 5 months after the fact.

Previous posts from OP mention it and explain her relationship with her DD. It was asked what GC meant and an explanation was given.

The explanation was disingenuous and misleading and I do not want to discuss anti trans rhetoric. The OP did not mention their views regarding gender in this post and I just stated clearly that I do not want to be drawn into a discussion about this subject. Do not continue to attempt to discuss this subject with me.

Don't ask questions and then be ridiculous because you don't like the answer. YOU asked what it meant and then got angry when the answer was given.

I am not going to enter into a discussion about gender or my views on the subject. This post is not about that subject and is not in the section of Mumsnet which deals with that. Let me be clear, I do not want to discuss gender on this post.

I consider your repeated attempts to engage in a discussion about this to be harassment. I do not want to discuss gender politics here.

I’m not going to tag PP because they’ve stated explicitly they don’t wish to engage. However there are just a couple of points worth mentioning.

1. gender critical beliefs are not “anti-trans”. They are sex-based rights which are protected by law.

2. women’s rights and women’s safety don’t need to be confined to a single corner of Mumsnet. It’s entirely appropriate to mention the subject when it’s relevant on any board, provided the OP isn’t derailed. Women’s rights aren’t a shameful subject that must be hidden from view.

However, we aren’t discussing the rights and wrongs of gender ideology here. The reason why it’s entirely relevant to mention is that this is what OP argued with her DD about. And also relevant is the fact that gender ideology uses the hashtag #No Debate - which means there’s a good chance that OP’s DD was unwilling to agree to disagree.

It’s relevant because it also means there’s a good chance that unless OP lied about her beliefs, there’s little she could have done to avoid the fallout.

No one needs to have a discussion about their gender/sex beliefs here, but the subject and typical reactions to disagreement on gender ideology are very relevant to the cheap Christmas gift.

I do take your point but it’s a difficult one. Many women have been caught by surprise when their DC have ostracised them due to GC views.

OP said previously she had a close relationship with her DD so it’s feasible that’s what’s happened here.

Unless you avoid ever touching on any subject that could be vaguely controversial, then there’s a risk this could happen. And honestly I can’t see how anyone can have full and authentic relationships if you never, ever discuss anything meaningful or where there may be differing views.

I think on most subjects it’s usually possible to agree to disagree, although as a society we’re getting worse at that. Everything seems to have become so binary and tribal with people expected to split into opposing camps and provide unwavering endorsement in every single way.

Problems arise when one side can’t respect that others may hold different views. I suspect OP never dreamt that her DD would cut her off because of her GC views but it’s sadly something that has happened to a significant number of women (anecdotally).

But I do think that OP should have provided context here because it’s led to long and pointless posts re the DD’s finances when very clearly the gift was related to the fallout. Context changes everything.

@Crispsandcola I apologise if I offended you. It really wasn’t my intention. Hope you are ok.

😂

The difference in my story is I brought my kids up to win arguments through facts and rationality, not by throwing their weight around and threatening to cut people out of their lives. You seem to be the spokeswoman for that kind of tactic, and expect parents to bow down to it.

Amen.

Or what? You'll flounce off?

I have never behaved in that way and I have always been able to have open conversations about anything with my parents. I hope to be the same with my DC.

But equally, I can see when it's not right to engage. Whether it's because I'm not prepared for the subject matter brought up or because of emotions running high or whatever. And so I don't (and won't) always engage.

If I've had a falling out over anything though, I won't be taking to the internet complaining about a present from the person who previously cut me off because she can afford more. I'll understand why.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

i think you’re doing yourself down!

im sure the people in your life love you plenty enough to be able to tolerate you having any different opinions to them!

express yourself!

You think I don't express myself because I said I have open and honest discussions but know when it's not appropriate to engage??

So if one of your children was about to do something risky, or ill considered, @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos, and you knew that bringing it up with them might not go down well, you'd say nothing to keep the peace? So basically you'd avoid any difficult conversation?

Why would you choose to write this comment? It's aggressive, childish and unnecessary. I said what I wanted to say.

Apology accepted and thank you @GirlyBassey

Aggressive, childish and unnecessary? More than your contributions to this thread? You are not the post police. If people want to say things you don't like, you can't force them not to, but you always have the choice to mute or leave.