To be disappointed about the book?

[AnnaSewell]

My daughter is in her mid-twenties. For Xmas she bought me a slim paperback book. I thought at the time it was a fairly modest gift but thanked her and put it on one side.

This evening I picked it up to read. I found she had omitted to rub out the pencil price put in at the charity shop. The book had cost £2.49.

I would like to have been worth a tenner.

In which case we can agree that that both of these can be true things: OP's daughter is a cheapskate or prone to petty, passive-aggressive gestures.

The thing is- there's no 'right' amount for someone to spend. Presents are communication, and the communication here is, I'm still in touch with you, but I'm still cross.

I don't think this needs a large amount of thinking about, it's not a generous gift, in a different context, it could be a quick or thoughtful gift- in the context of falling out it's a 'I want contact but I'm still upset' message.

GC/trans has been a massive issue in our household and I chose not to talk about it as a consequence, as one child found it very upsetting. Over time, this has mellowed and everyone is now polite around it even though we don't all agree, as with many issues, political ones anyway.

Respect and buying gifts aren't compulsory, they come from within the relationship, there's no point in overthinking this gift- one was given, it was in the context of a stressful relationship, it's over. Move on and think about how you want things to be in the future (and in general, having relatively generous interpretations works best unless you want to pick fights). No need to grovel or thank profusely though.

Not necessarily. It may have been intended as an olive branch, but she was unsure how it would be received, or unsure whether she actually wanted to give something, or she simply thought her mother would like the book and has never cared about it being a NEW book in the past.

We don't know the daughters intentions, so we can't say what is true there.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

so you’re going to just agree with everything and anything your offspring say and do then forever so as not to risk falling out with them? Doesn’t sound like a great relationship tbh

No. But there are ways of saying things that mean it's a discussion rather than an argument. And also, sometimes, you just need to know when to keep your views to yourself because they're unlikely to be shared by a younger generation.

Did you agree with all of your mother's views? And did you fall out over it to the point of NC or manage to discuss like rational adults?

Maybe if it was perfume or something but the price of a book doesn’t really matter tbh

I didn't agree with all my mother's views or some of the decisions she took during my childhood. But as a young adult woman I understood what she'd given up in order to raise me as well as she did and turn me into a woman with my own opinions capable of having a life of my own. Over the years we had periods when we got on well and others when we didn't, but I would never have given her a passive-aggressive gift that basically told her that I valued her as much as a tatty charity shop paperback. Because regardless of how well we were getting on at any given time, I recognised her as a hard-working woman who'd given me life, her time, energy and patience. My intelligence, my social skills, my ability with words, my ability to work hard, bake a decent cake, change a car tyre, grow my own veg — all down to her. And so even when we didn't like each other much, I acknowledged all she'd given me and tried to reflect that in the gifts I chose for her. It's called respect. I always respected my mum, even if I didn't always like her.

The number of women on here who appear not to expect their adult children to exhibit even a baseline of respect saddens me deeply.

This literally doesn't matter! It's really, really strange to be obsessing so much over her budget. 2 wages of 40k can leave young people still in a financially insecure position if they're hoping to buy their own home or have kids at any stage, or if they are in any one of hundreds of other situations which you may not be aware of.

Besides that, even if they do have spare money, it's up to them how much they spend on gifts. It's also up to you how much you spend. I know plenty of lovely, kind people who don't really do presents for other adults for financial and non-financial reasons.

She got you a present that you say you enjoyed. It's not about the book. If you're upset about your relationship with your daughter, work on that.

If she was on benefits I would agree. But come on, all she can afford is £2.49 on a joint salary of 80kL If their situation is super insecure on that they need to look at their outgoings.

Maybe they looked at their outgoings and decided to cut down on gifts for people who they don't have close relationships with 😀

You sound as passive aggressive as the DD.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

omg are you genuinely saying that the older generation shouldn’t be able to express themselves in case the younger generation doesn’t agree?!

@Toomanyemails

proper tight aren’t they? 😀

I think you're right. Having read OP's other threads, the daughter sounds controlling and judgemental.

I suspect she is the type that would be VERY pissed off if she didn't get a nice present from OP.

No. But I'm saying that what is considered appropriate changes rapidly. I have older relatives I massively dislike being around because they are openly racists and homophobic and express those views a lot. Go back 50 years to when they were the "young" generation and it was more widely accepted to hold those views. It's not now, with good reason.

Nowadays, there's differing views around gender/sex/identifying as etc. and some of them, whether anyone thinks they're valid or not, are things that can cause big rifts like racism and homophobia can. So, do we go around airing views that could be considered offensive to our children, or do we think about how they could be taken and decided whether that's something we actually want to discuss with them? Is it likely that discussing it will cause more harm than good? What will be gained from it if you do?

Basically, apply some thought to what opinions you make public and what you don't. As we should with literally any conversation we enter into. Think before we speak and decide whether this is something worth the potential consequences.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

gender critical views about sex and identity are not akin to racism and homophobia though.

Says who? And what will the attitude to them be in 50 years from now?

We're all entitled to opinions and we're entitled to express them. And this relates to everything, not just current "hot topics". What type of cheese you like. Your political views. Who you think is attractive. Whether you're a dog or cat person.

Before you discuss any opinions, decide whether you're prepared for any consequences of holding that opinion. One of which could be alienating people you love.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos

im not sure that people who have gender critical views should be expected to put up and shut up else risk alienating their offspring? Surely that says more about their offspring than them?

It doesn't matter what the opinion is, or who is "right" or "wrong". It's about deciding whether your opinion or your relationship with that person is the more important thing to you. Are your gender critical views worth your child no longer speaking to you? If yes, then by all means say whatever you want. If no, then maybe don't raise it. But if you decide that expressing your views is more important than maintaining a relationship with your child, don't complain when that relationship is damaged.

@Toomanyemails

Maybe they looked at their outgoings and decided to cut down on gifts for people who they don't have close relationships with 😀

Which would be hurtful to the parent on the receiving end to realise this. Which is basically what this whole thread is about.

As other posters have said, it's unfair to not communicate that you are cutting down on spending before you exchange gifts.

If this was genuinely a bolt from the blue and a sudden change from their usual gift giving tradition then maybe, but there's clearly some backstory to this about their relationship becoming strained.

OP didn't come on here asking if she should ask DD why she chose the book. She doesn't want to understand DD's decision, which probably means she knows the reason but isn't respecting it or willing to do anything to fix it, she wants us to vilify her DD. It's weird to be going on about how much DD earns and whether or not she owns a car.

If DD's been pass agg in general and not explained why, and OP is trying to resolve it, then that's the problem, not spending £2.50 on a gift the recipient enjoyed.

Yes there clearly is a backstory @Toomanyemails as posters have picked up - I haven't gone back over OP's past threads to find out. But I can still see how this would be upsetting for a parent - maybe more so with a shaky relationship. Obviously OP should try and resolve it, but that isn't what she was asking. I pretty much agree with most of your comments. If the daughter was deliberately intending to be hurtful, it worked.

TBH I'm not sure, if DC gave me a cheap and thoughtless gift, that I would raise it with them. I would probably just say thank you and take it to the charity shop. But, like you say, if there were other underlying issues, then, of course, I would raise those.

I assumed OP's comments about her daughter's salary/rent/car/outgoings are in answer to the posters mentioning COL and her potential poverty.

Feeling very grateful for my low maintenance parents right now. They never expect anything for birthdays or Christmases and I know they'd be chuffed with a book, even if it was from a charity shop. I think there's more to your story. Either you've missed something out about your relationship with your daughter or she's in serious debt or trouble and it was a cry for help? What worries me is that this is now nearly May and you are still dwelling on it.

It's almost as if you're entirely clueless as to the immense and real damage gender ideology is doing to women and children - or perhaps you simply don't care? Of course mothers should stand their ground when challenged by their adult children - and it's often the children who bring up the subject.

Aside from anything else, hiding or changing your deeply held beliefs to accommodate an adult child is terrible parenting. They need to learn that other people are allowed to think differently from them. All but one of my adult kids initially disagreed with my stance on gender, but after many discussions about it, they have become card-carrying terfs themselves.

Oh no, you can’t express your views cos you’ll damage your relationship with your child if you do according to @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos