To think my child is going to be the child everyone else avoids?

[beinghonestherenow]

And I can see why, although he’s only 3. I’m hoping to god he changes but it’s not looking hopeful.

He is really … unpleasant. I never hear him laugh unless it’s this horrible cackle (which goes right through me tbh) when he’s doing something he’s not supposed to.

The more annoyed or stern someone is with him the more he finds it funny.

He is aggressive and bites kicks and pushes, snatches toys, literally the second another child shows an interest in a toy he grabs it. I keep thinking this is getting better but then we’re back to square one.

I am worried about the impact it’s having on my marriage (I’m close to leaving tbh as I can’t cope) and our other child.

I refute that actually. I’ve ordered the books that have been recommended, I’ve taken the advice to look at some different approaches and the only thing I am not doing is going down the GP route that some are very insistent I do. I have explained why this is largely pointless and I’m sorry if you don’t like it but ‘kindly’ not doing everything posted doesn’t mean the thread as a whole was unhelpful. What I need at the moment is a bit of hope.

Hey OP, I know you're not sure if he is ND but I think you'd benefit from a group I'm in on Facebook, called Gentle parenting for autistic / ADHD / PDA children UK and beyond (I think).

You'll get support there from people with similar children who get what it's like.

I attempted to give you hope by posting about how supportive my son's nursery and school community was and continues to be.

I hope that the books others have recommended help you - I've used them and they were good.

All the best to you.

DS was unbelievably awful a lot of the time when he was 3, I think it's easy to think they should be able to understand and process a lot more than they actually can. He would quite happily yank at another child's hair, or push over babies who were only just sitting, which I thought were signs he was a complete psychopath, but in retrospect he just didn't have a concept of them as other people or understand that his actions were causing problem (even when I had to take him out of soft play/ playgroup repeatedly). He was very intelligent in other ways, so I probably had quite high expectations of his comprehension, but he had no empathy at all. His emotional intelligence was way, way behind his academic intelligence. He is a surprisingly caring teenager now, just a bit slow to develop in that area.

Give him time and cut yourself some slack, it's very unlikely to be anything you've done.

It’s really hard when you’re in the thick of a difficult phase, but although I’m not underestimating how hard it is, believe me!, I think you may have lost your sense of perspective a bit here, OP. There is no way to know at 3 years old how he will turn out. He may be a complete delight. He may be awful. He’ll probably be somewhere in between. The real issue is that you’ve gone from being in a difficult phase to seeming to feel that your child is destined to be so unpleasant that both they and the rest of your family are socially shunned as a result. Honestly, that’s incredibly unlikely. If his behaviour continues to be so difficult that he alienates everyone around him once he has started school, that will be picked up on, and interventions will be put in place to help him. But you don’t seem to think he’s ND, you seem to think he’s potentially lacking any appealing qualities. He had them until February but now they’ve gone. I don’t think you will see this because think you feel strongly that the problem isn’t you, it’s him, but please, just consider for a moment that it’s you. Apart from anything else that would be much easier to address. If you book an initial consultation with a counsellor or your GP and tell them how you are feeling I think it may really help. You have very little support from the sound of it, which with two small children can be very very debilitating, and I think you may be in a much harder place psychologically than you realise. That may be the reason your son is acting as he is - children may seem oblivious to us but they really aren’t. You are thinking of this situation, chicken and egg, in one way. What if the chicken and the egg are reversed? What if your mental state is exacerbating his typical small child behaviour and your perception of him? This is no one’s fault but if you let him grow up with a mum who thinks he is somehow devoid of nice qualities, kind of Doris Lessing’s Fifth Child territory, you will have a tragedy on your hands. None of you deserve that. Please don’t look to mumsnet here, the way you are feeling needs proper exploration and you need proper support. I really hope you reach out for it and things improve for you - you and your little boy deserve to get your joy back.

Yes this is what you always do on these threads too. Start getting aggressive and rude with posters. I'd gently echo the posters who have suggested part of this may be your own wellness, and perhaps a visit to check in on yourself might be a way forward too.

It's totally ok to ignore the bits of advice you don't agree with or want to follow. You really don't need to point out to people why you disagree with their advice, since you asked for help and people are trying to help. If a few people say the same thing, it's worth having a think about whether they may have a point and can see a pattern or idea that you may have missed or discounted. You say a GP appointment takes weeks, but that's not a barrier you know. That's a step you can take. You posted here weeks ago so you could have had an appointment by now. If you make an appointment tomorrow, by the time you next feel despairing and like posting, you could have an appointment.

Thanks. I’m definitely not interested in counselling or my own GP though. I’m not saying he has no redeeming features but they do seem somewhat buried just at the moment shall we say! The real problem is I can’t reach him. He’s here but we’re very disconnected and any attempts to bring us closer together backfire.

I don’t think I’ve been aggressive or rude. What you want is to provoke me so that you can claim this, I don’t know why as I am afraid I don’t know your name but aggressive and rude posts can be reported. That would probably be the best starting point rather than trying to divert a thread that is helpful, even if I’m not following every bit of advice to the letter.

I really dislike my niece. She's 9 and totally strange. I don't trust her around the other children as she's put one in hospital with a head injury and then a leg injury another time.

We all hoped she would grow out of it but she hasn't yet. She's had all the assessments and is clear for everything.

Some kids are just odd and
unlikeable.

He might grow out of it.

Jesus, that's a nasty comment.

I don't have advice but I think just the fact that you are worried shows you are a good mum and trying to get the behavior under control. I know people who have children even worse and have not a clue why they are avoided and not included.

And those berating me for daring to have more than one thread (thanks for outing me, by the way)

To whom and where else should I turn?

I know many are pushing the GP but even if this was a route I wanted to go down it would just be parenting classes offered in the first instance. Ditto HV.

Counselling is around £60 per hour. I can’t afford that! And who would have my children?

So who and what? If I can’t anonymously cry on here after another horrendous day - and I can’t because I feel like I’ll just be outed now - then that’s where we’re at!

There are many sources of free counselling support. Which can be delivered remotely at a time to suit you. You are writing options off before exploring them - please please think about at least giving your GP a chance to help you, what do you have to lose here?

I'm glad the thread is helpful for you. I'm much older than you and have grown up kids - I've no interest in provoking you. All I'm saying is there's a really clear pattern. It's how so many people have recognised you despite - you'd think - a fairly generic topic about three year olds being difficult. You start these threads sounding very despairing and extremely negative about your three year old (perhaps warranted). You then fairly quickly start to nitpick the advice and eventually you get rude and aggressive. If it's helping, I guess it's worth it, but I do hope you are able to recognise that you're simultaneously crying out for help and blankly discounting suggestions that multiple people are making. You're so sure you're right - but at the same time you're despairing and asking for help. Might be worth just opening your mind a bit because whatever you're doing now isn't working for you. Best of luck.

I feel very sorry for him as well, believe it or not. I am worried because I do care. Of course his behaviour is worrying for me. If he continues on his current path, and I very much hope he does not, life is going to be very unhappy. He will not have any friends and he will grow to be an angry, lonely, frustrated little boy.

The only thing you seem to want is for everyone to to say that yes, your child seems really unlikeable and destined to grow up to be an awful person, and you would be justified in abandoning him to save the rest of you

The only reference I have made to this is in my OP where I say I feel like walking out. Even if I actually would and I wouldn’t I couldn’t on purely practical grounds. I mean, I wouldn’t anyway but it doesn’t mean I don’t sometimes think about it. It’s like my lottery winning fantasies and about as likely as that given I don’t even do the lottery.

DS and I are stuck with one another for good or ill. At the moment, he has no respect for me, largely ignores me, laughs at me when I insist he does listen to me and destroys or ruins things. Dreaming of walking away from that - yes, I do. And I do blame myself of course.

@Pedestrian0 if you think I’ve been rude just report the posts, please. Saying I’m not planning on doing something is not being rude. I’m too exhausted for anything else. Report these rude aggressive posts and let MN deal with them in the morning. Personally, I wouldn’t bother posting on a thread if I felt the OP was rude and aggressive so the fact you keep doing so does look as if you are trying to provoke to be honest.

Nobody has berated you - just identified the bigger picture. I think it's actually helpful to help people support you. If this was a one-off mum having a rough day, it's ok to just say 'awww poor you it'll all turn out ok' but given the pattern of both your son's behaviour and your responses/mood, I think you need more than that. I'm not sure why you've already decided what the GP and HV will do. And that it's not worth doing parenting classes even if you turn out to be right. There's nothing shameful about parenting classes - parenting is really hard for all of us. Why not try the options (that may or may not be) offered to you by professionals who know a lot more than you? At the very worst, the next time you go, you'll be another step closer as you can say 'Yep, did the parenting classes you kindly offered, did XYZ techniques, it didn't work/this is the outcome. Now I'm ready for the next step please.' Good luck with it all.

My DS was really challenging as a 3 year old. We didn't go out and see anyone for about 1.5 years as he was a biter and aggressive and generally really hyper and it was so horribly stressful. It was a very unhappy lonely time. He's just at the end of primary school now and is a lovely, chatty, popular kid. It was just a developmental phase that went on for what seemed like forever!

I wonder which sex your other child is? You don't say. But I see friends with sweet little girls who haven't always experienced the same as me with my hyper DS when he was 3 and their experiences of parenting were completely the opposite of mine. Just to be aware that it may be just the contrast you've noticed between being a mum to two very different children.

@Pedestrian0 i think it would be best if you reported the posts that you believe are rude and aggressive and let MN deal with them. I do believe your persistence in posting here is to be critical of me and an attempt to goad me so that you can ‘support’ the theory that I am a rude and aggressive poster. I don’t want to argue as frankly I am just too tired. I am guessing you’ve reported the rude posts by now.

OP you sound lovely. I’m sorry some posters are giving you a hard time. I recently posted a thread under an alter and was treated incredibly viciously by a small number of clearly awful people.

Best wishes to you 💐

To be fair most people have been very kind and helpful.

Im not sure I’m lovely! I’m having a hard time at the moment. I’m dealing with some very challenging behaviour pretty much solo and it is a huge source of worry to me. I’m not perfect and I’m sure the way I deal with it isn’t always perfect.

Most kids have difficult phases, and some kid's difficult phases are worse than other kids'.

Be kind to yourself and him. It's ok to feel upset and frustrated. Remember that you can see the potential consequences of his bad behaviour (being ostracised) because you're looking through adult eyes. He isn't.

@Resisterance im just lying here trying to work out what went wrong and when and how. I don’t want to reopen wounds on here but when people get arsey about posting the same thing more than once I think this is why … it’s my way of trying to puzzle it all out.

I am fairly sure that jealousy is the root of a lot of the behaviour but it’s so difficult to address as I can’t ignore the baby! Attempts to reconnect with DS backfire and it’s hard when you’re in such a negative cycle. We did have an incident in February which I am wondering if it affected DS more than I thought it did, it is the only thing I can really think of.

I would bet my bottom dollar that if you asked your GP to put your son on the waiting list for an autism assessment it would come back that he is on the spectrum with PDA profile. I hope you do one day decide to get the help your son deserves

I had postnatal depression when my child was that age and everything he did for a while irritated me. Consequently he nagged me constantly. The doctor prescribed me antidepressants and I can't tell you how much they helped. I had more time for him and was much more attentive to him I didn't have bad thoughts circulating in my brain the whole time. His behaviour changed like magic. He had my attention, stopped nagging and we both cheered up enormously. I hadn't realised that how I was was having an impact on how he was and vice versa.

You sound very depressed and I'm not surprised. I would get help for yourself and I think you will find it then easier to manage your son.

I am not saying it's your fault.