To think my child is going to be the child everyone else avoids?

[beinghonestherenow]

And I can see why, although he’s only 3. I’m hoping to god he changes but it’s not looking hopeful.

He is really … unpleasant. I never hear him laugh unless it’s this horrible cackle (which goes right through me tbh) when he’s doing something he’s not supposed to.

The more annoyed or stern someone is with him the more he finds it funny.

He is aggressive and bites kicks and pushes, snatches toys, literally the second another child shows an interest in a toy he grabs it. I keep thinking this is getting better but then we’re back to square one.

I am worried about the impact it’s having on my marriage (I’m close to leaving tbh as I can’t cope) and our other child.

Some people on here are just arsey, much more so these days IMHO. Please try to ignore them as it’s just going to feed into the negative spiral.

I think the thing I have struggled with most is that it feels so lonely having a child like this. Finding even one person who gets it is incredible and gives you such a lift. You really are not alone.

It isn’t so much there’s an underlying theme, but I do find DH undermines me and also isn’t very good at preempting problems. To give an example although some months ago we were going to go and see some Christmas lights turned on, fairground rides and so on so I picked DS up from nursery early. Get home and DH is farting around ‘just let me do this one thing’ DS is getting bored and restless … eventually we go and massive tantrum because DS is exhausted. Stuff like that happens all the time and it’s one reason I dread weekends.

OP - haven't RTFT but have read a bit, plus your responses.

Sadly I don't have any useful things to add but just wanted to say yes, it's fine to use your own judgement about what to do, asking for advice doesn't mean you have to follow it slavishly when you've considered it carefully and decided it's not for you! You're your DS's mum, you know him and love him best.

Also it sounds fucking hard.💐

A cousin and a niece were both horrible children, my cousin dragged my younger brother around the playground and called him rag doll. She was demanding with her parents - although she was fine with me. She got whatever she wanted, when she wanted it. My niece was horrible to her little brother, I didn’t see what she was like with other kids but her brother was four years younger and she regularly physically attacked him. Both these awful children turned into lovely teenagers and adults.

Is he behind in his speech? My son didn't start nursery until he was 3 and 3 months, so I know he was three when we were getting the reports home of him hitting other children. The nursery identified he was not where he should be with his talking and recommended speech therapy support. Once he was able to express himself better the violence seemed to fall away. He was a very sweet 7 year old now.

Is he behind in his speech? My son didn't start nursery until he was 3 and 3 months, so I know he was three when we were getting the reports home of him hitting other children. The nursery identified he was not where he should be with his talking and recommended speech therapy support. Once he was able to express himself better the violence seemed to fall away. He was a very sweet 7 year old now.

@beinghonestherenow - my heart goes out to you - you are exhausted, frustrated and overwhelmed. I just wish I could give you a massive hug.

I had PND after each of my three dses were born, but in my case, it was secondary to clinical depression that was, at that point, undiagnosed - but I do know how dark your thoughts can be. You are beating yourself up so much - I understand that, because I do it myself (I sometimes say that I put myself down, to save others the bother of doing it for me), but was brought to a halt when my therapist (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) said it was so hurtful to hear how unkindly I spoke about myself.

I still do it - but I am getting better at stopping myself. You are doing an amazing job as a mum, in difficult circumstances, and even if no-one else is noticing this, you need to. Be kind to yourself - both mentally and physically. A previous poster suggested gut bacteria supplements - I have read about these being beneficial in depression too. It might be worth taking a vitamin and mineral supplement - as a busy mum, I'm willing to bet that you come well down the list when it comes to looking after yourself, so a supplement might help boost things a bit.

When you find yourself beating yourself up for your perceived 'failings', practise stopping yourself, and saying something nice instead - I know that isn't easy, but practise makes perfect - or better, at least.

If I can help any more - or if you just want an understanding ear - I promise no judgement, just support - just message me.

Hi OP, I’ve read most of your replies. Just wanted to say that 3 is a shit age regardless of ND or not. Kids develop and change. I’ve had some many shit times and problems with my kids that I’ve wondered how to resolve but in the end they just grew out of it. I have two kids (with additional needs but they only became readily apparent in one on starting school nursery - I sought a diagnosis at that point). But it won’t be you that’s the issue. It is ok to feel like you hate your kid and want to leave. Emotions like that are normal it’s just most people don’t talk about it.

i don’t really have much advice but I hear you, I really think it’ll get easier, then harder, then easier but on a trend of generally easier. You’re in the thick of it now with two young kids and challenging ones at that.

my only advice is if there is anything you can do to look after yourself at all please do that. With challenging children the number one priority needs to be good self care for the parents.

my kid was a nightmare at 3. I got a lot of expensive counselling, which helped me. He eventually was diagnosed with ASD - which led to precisely zero support, but did make him feel more secure in himself.

the main thing I wanted to say was that my son is now an absolutely delightful teenager. Don’t give up on him, or yourself x

Out of interest, what are both your parenting styles like?

I think you’ve said you have a new baby to look after. This situation with your 3 year old must be very tiring for you. It sounds to me like the 3 year old is playing up for attention (and also just because 3 year olds have very big emotions), can they go to nursery full time? Then you could arrange one on ones with your 3 year old at the weekend. I found our 3 year old didn’t act up in settings they were unfamiliar with, so would drag them all over London to random and obscure museums, was regularly amazed by how angelic the little devil would be in front of other people (it was sometimes galling). Keep them moving, is my friends advice for naughty kids. I do appreciate that is a lot of effort on your part and you sound like you could do with a bloody lie down.

@beinghonestherenow In that scenario, I'd take the child out of the dining room

My strategies are -

(1) focus on the behaviour you want, as this gives clear direction and is easier to praise eg "sit on the floor / well done for sitting on the floor" works better than "don't climb on the table (vague, unclear what you actually do want) / well done for not climbing on the table (sounds a weird thing to say)"

(2) actions have consequences, but the consequences are age appropriate / relate to the poor behaviour eg "I asked you to sit on the floor, you climbed on the table, so we're going to have to leave the dining room now to keep you safe" is better than "you climbed on the table = no TV for a week"

(3) consistent boundaries. Children push back & test what they can get away with, but consistent boundaries help them to feel safe and secure

(4) sometimes, ignore the bad behaviour. Don't reward it with attention. Ignore the cheek, praise the polite. (Obviously, not appropriate if it's a safety issue)

(5) no shouting. Children copy what they see

But, TBH, I think it's good you're aware of the issue, so you can address it. Far better than thinking everything's great when it's not

Speech therapy may be a good call (and doesn’t mean ND at all) is he large for his age DS was and it was a terrible stage

I really feel for you - you sound absolutely exhausted. I’ve been there. It’s certainly not unusual to see this kind of behaviour in 3 years olds and it can be just developmental. My own DD was a nightmare when she was little, never slept, never stopped, had tantrum after tantrum. Things only improved - entirely by chance - when we moved areas and a lovely and supportive lady suggested I keep a food diary. Well I’d just had another baby (after a hellish pregnancy during which I was told I nearly died ), my mother was in hospital miles away ill with cancer, my husband seriously ill (he was very unwell all that year) so I had to run the family business and look after the kids whilst surviving on about 4 hours broken sleep a night - and the very last thing I wanted to do was start a blooming food diary! Certainly there was no one who could help me. So I started with a very simple tick sheet - with a column per day split into sections, eg before breakfast, before lunch, etc. I put a mark into each section when we had a meltdown and it did begin to show - mostly - some kind of a pattern. It turned out she was intolerant to artificial colours (tartrazine and sunset yellow) , to some preservatives found in bread, and especially to some artificial sweeteners. It took some time to work this out of course, and once sorted what a difference, like a switch had been flicked. She suddenly became the loveliest and caring girl, but was 7 by then so it wasn’t an easy first few years.
Later professionally I became team leader for primary aged children excluded from primary school for behavioural issues. Most didn’t have any diagnosis and frankly it wasn’t needed - I dealt with the behaviours - which are a form of communication - that they presented with. I used to get the children no one could cope with - even if they weren’t even living in my catchment area. There was no magic bullet. I had to first start with flooding them with praise. Had to find something - anything - to give them praise ‘I really liked the way you walked into the room’, ‘I can see you are really listening well’ ,’you were so kind to get that book’, anything, because they were so used to hearing negative comments. Anything positive got them a reward - a sticker/tick/ token - and there was a menu of ‘treats’ they could exchange their reward for a treat once they had enough. The youngest I worked with was 4 years old so a bit older, but had a history of exclusion from nursery. Unacceptable behaviour was firstly ‘oh dear, I see you’ve (eg) hit xyz again - did you forget that we use kind hands here?’ This was to give them a chance to reflect on their action. Little ones of course don’t even understand always what they have done, or to control their emotions. (‘I hit xyz by accident’, ‘no. I saw you hit xyz on purpose’, ‘no it was an accident. I didn’t mean to hit them. It just happened when I couldn’t help it’. ) Penalties then increased incrementally, the first being (if needed) would be time out (maximum 1 minute per year of age). They each had a visual timetable for the day and the day ran on clearly structured lines.
It took time and careful planning but all made great progress, and by no means were all later diagnosed as ND. Several went on to be very successful, some even won scholarships to public schools which shows how much they had improved. Several became prefects with a mainstream school. I only ever lost 1, who we did have to exclude for violence to others, but there were some very exceptional circumstances involved, and I was winning with that one until the family had a family emergency. So either way the future may not be as black as some might make out.
However all this takes energy. My concern is more for you. I remember all too well just how grim it was going through that time and surviving minute by minute. It sounds like you need someone to give you some TLC. Is there anyone who could give you some ‘me time’ - a day at the spa, or a day off sometime? Even a few hours off may help. I know it’s easier said than done. Certainly I had no one - but hormones being out, lack of sleep, being overwhelmed all make things seem so much worse. You feel overwhelmed and desperate to escape. Once you are feeling better things will fall into perspective better. I do hope this is helpful and that you can get some support for you, and that you soon see the other side of the coin with your little boy. My very best wishes and thoughts go to you both.

@NeedToChangeName - see this is the problem. The dining room is part of a big open plan downstairs. Even if I took him upstairs and closed the door he could get out. Leaving the house isn’t exactly practical so then what? I know people will insist if I keep removing him he’ll give in. I’m not sure! It does feed that negative behaviour too

DS doesn’t need speech therapy.

Thanks.

You seem very rigid and a bit know it all
You cannot know about the autism throughly like an expert would. Your child has behaviour and emotional issues and need help, whether he has ASD or something else. You don't want to go to an expert, you talk about your son being high functioning. So what, high functioning doesn't help with other issues, he/ you need help, which you are unwilling to approach. You seem to look down on people with mental health or development struggles.

Why did you even create this thread if you are so against any advice?

Speech therapists (SALT) aren’t just for speech delay or impairment, they can help with social communication. i.e how to behave . SALT and occupational therapists can really help.

I had a very difficult 3 year old, who is now a very difficult 14 year old BUT he managed to stay in school and make friends through the help of OT and SALT and community paeds referral which unlocked family therapy via CAMHS.

I paid for the SALT and OT privately. Money well spent.

@Redpaisely we’ve been through this at least three times now, probably more. There is no way of knowing at this stage if DS is ND or otherwise. Professionals would not know either and nothing would happen as a result.

As to why I created the thread. How many times have I said thank you, have I agreed with a poster, conceded yes that’s true, taken points on board. It has helped. The fixation on DS having autism hasn’t been helpful at all but that’s not to say other parts of the thread haven’t been.

Not taking YOUR advice doesn’t = not taking advice.

Good for you @Wishlist99

All good points. Just one request to parents, please don't ignore their bad behaviour in public.

You got cross with me for saying that you're often rude on these posts and refuted it so just for reference, this is the kind of thing I mean. Maybe you genuinely don't realise how rude this comes across when someone is trying to help. I only mention it because I wonder if you're approaching your DS with this kind of combative attitude. If he senses that you're often angry, perhaps he's reacting to that. I know when I'm anxious or down it can come out as anger or a short fuse too. I hope the GP was helpful.

I thought 3-4 was the toughest age with dd. Hopefully it was get better. I know plenty of awful boys in her class too but they are getting much better. They were always getting told off age 3-4 for being too rough.

@Pedestrian0 i think I have been a little rude with some posters today, yes. Last night I hadn’t. But of course you’ve reported these rude posts, haven’t you? You wouldn’t come and just complain about my rudeness, would you?

@user333334 thanks. I do try to and he seems to like to be busy but it can also get tricky as I worry I do too much with him and he gets overwhelmed! Hard to get a balance sometimes.

And actually @Pedestrian0 i am getting a little bit concerned by these posts from you.

Your first post on this thread made it clear you’d ‘recognised’ me and left some clues if you like so that others would too. I think that is a wanker thing to do and that is rude but apt I would say.

The rest of your posts whine that I am rude but you don’t give specifics: you don’t say ‘this post was rude, this crossed a line.’ It’s just - ‘you’re rude, you’re aggressive.’

I have become a bit frustrated today with posters who will not accept that pursuing a diagnosis for DS is pointless. I think most people when they’ve had to answer something that must be approaching thirty odd times now would be getting a bit fed up. At the point of your complaint, last night, none of my posts were rude: they were pretty polite to be honest. Which is of course why you haven’t been able to reply

I don’t like what you’re doing here and don’t appreciate your input. That’s direct. And honest.

I got my ds an inflatable punching bag and that helped with his behavior. He also started wrestling with DH in the yard. He just seemed to be busting with testosterone, and when he didn't have an outlet it showed. I think sports will help greatly. It's not very fair, but mums get the worst of their DC. They trust us more than anyone, so push boundaries and try out all their worst behavior and impulses on us. Just hang in there. Once ds passed 4, he was much better and yours most likely will be too.