To think my child is going to be the child everyone else avoids?

[beinghonestherenow]

And I can see why, although he’s only 3. I’m hoping to god he changes but it’s not looking hopeful.

He is really … unpleasant. I never hear him laugh unless it’s this horrible cackle (which goes right through me tbh) when he’s doing something he’s not supposed to.

The more annoyed or stern someone is with him the more he finds it funny.

He is aggressive and bites kicks and pushes, snatches toys, literally the second another child shows an interest in a toy he grabs it. I keep thinking this is getting better but then we’re back to square one.

I am worried about the impact it’s having on my marriage (I’m close to leaving tbh as I can’t cope) and our other child.

It may be that your child is more sensitive than you think… some children are natural readers of any strong emotions or tensions in the room… the feeling may not be coming from them, but they pick up on it and act on it.

I would recommend spending bonding time with your child… walks are a greet way to do it… or any other movement based activity that releases endorphins and can be done together. Even playing catch with a simple ball in the garden!

You want your child to associate with you fun activities and the release of good feelings.

Father needs to be more active in this… if he has time for “hobbies” he needs to make time for his children, I mean actually prioritising them. Have him take the infant even if it’s just for an hour while you play with your son or take a break.

We need to break this cycle and the first thing is how you feel….you sound defeated, upset, frustrated, and a bit angry and despairing.

There is hope! Strongly consider talk therapy with a psychologist and short term medication to relax you so you can take it all in and start on a new page of feelings.

ND or not, your posssibly highly sensitive child won’t be happy until your are… the more relaxed and content you are, the more he will be, too…

I know it’s hard to imagine right now, but sometimes and action precedes a feeling… for example, forcing a smile when you don’t feel like it, actually releases happy hormones and helps to rewrite the brain!
Similarly, playing catch might seen too simplistic to solve your worries… but try it and see, I guarantee you will be surprised how both you and he feel even with just ten minutes a day!

Sometimes we psyche our own selves out and lock ourselves into a little box in our mind, when the solution is a very simple action.

In short, think and worry less, do more (fun physical stuff that breaks a sweat) together and apart, too. You both need some healing and playfulness in your lives.

Thanks

I am a bit creeped out by Doxxy McDoxxer trying to get everyone to join the dots so I will leave it there, but I do appreciate the answers. (By the way - DS doesn’t hurt the other child and is toilet trained so are you sure you’ve joined your dots correctly?)

You may find that things are much better at school.

I could have written a lot of your post 12 years ago. DD was a nightmare frankly - we ended up with amazing help and a child psychotherapist from 18 months for a couple of years. Didn't improve DD's behaviour but helped me to cope.

Once they can be bribed it's a lot easier. I was advised to make a lucky dip bag with lots of small cheap things and when I needed to negotiate for something then DD could have something from the bag in return for compliance. Gradually we increased the size of what she had to do (walk to bus stop without screaming tantrum became walk to end of the road and then go round entire supermarket).

Ultimately DD turned out to be ADHD and life is never totally simple - but three of her teachers wrote that she was 'a delight and a pleasure to teach' on her Y10 report and she has loads of friends and not a single bad behaviour point in 4 years at secondary. So do not lose hope!

I have sobbed in many professional's offices over my inability to parent a child for whom consequences were of no interest (she didn't care enough about anything) and who is still Olympic gold standard when it comes to stubborn.

Why would someone do that? Say you have been rude or aggressive to provoke you to prove their point. Do they know you in real and have animosity to have such ulterior motive against you? You need to take a deep breath and look at responses with an open mind. also, it is not just about you, of course you are struggling and it's up to you what help or advice you take. But your son is very young to plan his future self and depends on you. And if he has some distress for some ND reason, it is not in his control to manage and he depends on you and his father to guide him or seek him assistance so he learn to regulate his emotions or way he acts with other kids for whatever reason. He can't see that his actions will cause people avoiding him, causing himself alienation and other issues. So if not for your own sake, for his sake you need to talk to as many experts as possible - communication, behaviour, GP whoever you can get to listen to you so your son gets help with whatever is causing him to act out in this way.

@beinghonestherenow Are you getting any time to yourself each day when you're not worrying about babies/toddlers/ returning to work/ DH being more than useless/ keeping on top of the laundry (delete as appropriate). Sitting down to read a book, practice your yoga moves or do something crafty - anything but doom scrolling online - will give you chance to remember you are far more than a mum & wife.

He’s a toddler, so barely out of the baby years, how can you make these conclusions about his character? Have you tried love bombing him, adoring him might work, it usually does.

@beinghonestherenow I really feel for you. My eldest was very difficult and oppositional.

There were lots of good times, too, especially when she was younger, and we went through a similar stage around 3-4yo, but our really bad times started when I had less control and influence, as they were already 18.
They started smoking, doing drugs and hanging out with a bad crowd and have since twisted their upbringing into being at the root of all their depression issues, etc, and whilst I'm far from perfect, I did my best, and was on the whole, a good parent.
They're now 23yo, and we don't really have much of a relationship as at 20, we had to ask them to move out as things were untenable (refusing to stick to even basic compromises/rules regarding living together).

I'm very hurt, and can't understand why they've twisted things. My only hope is that as they mature, they realise they didn't have it so bad.

They have Aspergers, and were dx at 10yo (suspected from abt 3yo). I also suspect ADD (as did their doctor), but they didn't want to get dx at that point (14yo). Once diagnosed, there was no actual, practical help forthcoming, so it was almost pointless, tbh.

I don't have much advice, atm, and you've already had a lot, but I understand how you feel, and had the impression you wanted to vent a bit, so if you ever want to pm me and offload, please do. 💐🙏🏼

I'm sorry you feel that way. No I haven't reported your ruder posts. Being rude isn't against MN talk guidelines (just as well or they'd have to shut half the site down 😆).

Nobody is 'doxxing' you by pointing out that you regularly post on the same topic and with the same combative responses. I can see I wasn't the first or only person to realise it was you again or to point it out. Like me, they probably thought you'd get more helpful responses if people didn't see it as a one-off post from a mum having a tough few days with her toddler. I hope you feel better soon. All the best!

I don't think any one is saying he definitely have autism. There could be other issue. I am definitely not an expert but a GP knows q bit more than us unqualified people and can refer the child to a child psychologist or another one expert.
Also, no need to shout, I can read the word your. In fact, I haven't given you any specific advice other than going to people who are more qualified and knowledgeable.
You are against the idea of advice about any professional help. Only agreed to reading books. On one hand, you say you can't cope and on other you want to handle it alone. Maybe you are very overwhelmed and hence getting irritated with replies. I wish you well and hope things for you and your son get better 💐

Has the behaviour got worse since the birth of his sister? Have you tried asking him to draw how he is feeling or point to faces you have drawn to explain? 3 year old are not little sods on purpose they just have a lot going on. If he snatches a toy from another child how do you respond? Do you explain that child had it and was playing with it and when theh finish he can have a go? It's gentle parenting which I know your not a fan of but explaining the no makes things make sense to a confused 3 year old. It has to be consistent in that if another child takes from him they are also told its your child's turn and they can have a go when finished etc. It's tough parenting toddlers

Professionals would likely know. And if they think he may be, there are things that could be put in place, in an EHCP ready for school. Things that may be necessary for him to cope with reception if his behaviour doesn't change soon.

You can say you don't want this or that until your blue in the face, maybe he isn't ND we don't know him. What I do know is that you're months in, on your third thread. You've tried the mountains of advice and been given so many strategies already and nothing has improved.

There has to come a cut off point where you have to take a deep breath and take the help. You have nothing to lose if it doesn't work. But so much to gain for your DS if it does. Letting your DS sink because you're embarrassed of taking support or any 'label' he may get isn't good enough.

I haven't read the whole thread but I've read what you have said. I know you're adverse to the gp but what about health visitor? They can come to your home and see him in his own environment, they are also specialised in child development. I do worry about the impact on you and this will then impact on your bond and this can create it's own trauma and the responses that go along with that. The earlier you seek support the stronger the scaffolding you will have. I wish you all the luck in the world with it...kids are tricky

"From what you describe his behaviour shows more psychopathic tendencies not autistic or ND characteristics."

Oh, for heaven's sake. 🙄 He's three years old, he's not a psychopath. Even if you could diagnose a child with psychopathy (you can't), absolutely no one can diagnose someone they have never met, long distance and via internet.

@beinghonestherenowI would think about attachment at this point, doing everything you can to foster and improve your connection. You might wish to look into techniques for adoptive parents. They can be extremely helpful with biological children as well.

I also wouldn't worry about your son's laughter. Of course it is inappropriate to the moment, but it sounds as though he has difficulty regulating emotions anyway. I vividly recall laughing when I was being told off as a young child. I didn't think it was funny in any sense, it was an emotional response to a situation I found difficult to cope with.

What you say about his language is also interesting. If he doesn't really understand what is asked of him, he may be confused about why he's not being allowed to do what he wants. In that case his behaviour isn't "naughty" or "defiant." As his communication improves, you might see an improvement in behaviour as well.

OP I also want to offer support for caring for your own mental health. I fully understand that this can feel overwhelming- a mum's mental load is massive and having to add 'self-care' to the list feels the opposite of helpful!!
I started taking sertraline when my eldest was nearly 1. It was definitely needed. Depression didn't feel like sadness for me, it was anger/frustration/resentment. I think because it just took away a lot of the positive feelings too - so I couldn't really feel that I loved my child (or husband, sometimes) so the challenging stuff didn't have that overlay of 'I love this kid but fuck he's a handful' it was just 'fuck you're making my life hard' if that makes sense.
I know it's tough to face this stuff, but it really can get better. I still feel all those feelings now but they're in balance, you know? I don't feel overwhelmed by them. And I feel loving & connected with my kids even when they're really tough to parent.

Pretty much ALL 3 year olds are psychopaths 😂😁

I have a little boy, and whilst he wasn’t quite as you describe there was and sometimes continue to be a lot of similarities.

Firstly I have boys and girls - boys are different (generally speaking) and some of them very intense. We found that a supernanny response such as the step had success but there were some times we had to put him back 40 times!

we found that when he was being difficult you had to be totally unemotional- the more I got angry the more he did or the more he laughed. Probably being he couldn’t control his Emotions and didn’t know what to make of our (usually my crossness).

Consistency is the key and swapping - bedtimes for an example were a nightmare for us which would result in up to an hour of tantrums. We had a code word when it was getting too much. He was ridiculous with it, he’d get himself into a frame of mind where he just wanted to hit us and frankly the only thing that would stop him was when he hurt himself (fell out of bed or hit his leg when he was kicking etc).

Get support if you need it but if he genuinely has mostly good reports at nursery I wouldn’t worry too much. We had the idd issue but he was three. He now is five and is a bright boy and consistently gets rewarded in school.

Wow, just sat down and seen OP’s response to my suggestion. Pretty rude (“good for you” - I’m going to assume that was sarcastic given how rude she’s been to others.) why bother responding if you’re going to be nasty?

My advice was given with the benefit of fifteen years of going round the houses with two children, both with myriad issues, one who initially presented almost identically to the OPs son, right down to the impact on my relationship. My dh and I had specialist couples therapy with a family therapist which helped massively (which I could go into but you’ll probably be nasty about that as well).

i would have been happy to offer more support and advice but obviously the OP knows better and I’m not used to posters being so unpleasant when I’m offering well-intentioned advice. I’ll back away now, feeling quite sad.

Hi OP. I rejoined MN just to reply to your thread, not that you lack replies.

I feel exactly the same about my 3-4 y.o DS. He is a work in progress shall we say. I'm super super heartened by other messages on this thread saying that 3 is a tough age, 4th birthday may bring relief, etc. Let's see.

I also have a younger child, we are a bit further along than you, DD is nearly 2. I do think so much of it is jealousy related. It's been a nightmare tbh. I've done so much reading up on ASD and ADHD and would say I'm where you are - could be, but could well not be. ADHD feels more likely, partly as I suspect myself too on that front.

Not sure if you drink, I drink. But one thing I'd say is that winey evenings and next days full of difficult 3/4 year olds are not a good blend. When DH and I are sharing a bottle of wine 4 nights a week it's harder than when we are not. We 'only' drink one bottle shared max of an evening, we are not getting leathered, but I do notice a difference. This maybe irrelevant.

After reading this thread today (thanks all!) I tried soooo hard tonight to be NICE to DS. I ignored all his badness and loved on all his goodness, and we did have a much better evening. I have been blowing up when he is challenging, it's really hard not to. I have screamed and yelled and removed him from rooms, and mostly he has hit, laughed and/or spat at me. Tonight he started on the hitting spitting routine and I just rose above it and kept repeating calm things about being kind, etc.

My DH is pretty absent (works hard) and dismissive of how hard it is, so I get that. Great dad and DH overall.

Anyway, thank you for the thread. It's helped me. I really hope it helps you too. At risk of echoing PPs I think help for yourself would be what I would try and focus on. Your son is likely just a three year old. And you're likely just a recnetly post partum, overstretched mum, but we all know that's exactly when depression and other challenges can strike. Just do some preventative self care, maybe a blood panel, etc. We don't get a whole lot of 'just in case' care on the NHS and there could be an easy fix that gets you feeling a bit more game for the challenge of your no doubt lovely son. X

Work with a child psychologist. Good luck.

My younger sister was like this from an early age. My Mother really struggled with her. My older sister and I really struggled with her. She was violent, demanding, didn’t give a jot for fairness … it’s just who she was. And still is. We are NC. But she has gone on to have a partner and family of her own but there are struggles with her and her children. It’s possibly mental illness of some description or maybe she’s just a nasty piece of work. Not everybody is lovely OP 🙁