To think my child is going to be the child everyone else avoids?

[beinghonestherenow]

And I can see why, although he’s only 3. I’m hoping to god he changes but it’s not looking hopeful.

He is really … unpleasant. I never hear him laugh unless it’s this horrible cackle (which goes right through me tbh) when he’s doing something he’s not supposed to.

The more annoyed or stern someone is with him the more he finds it funny.

He is aggressive and bites kicks and pushes, snatches toys, literally the second another child shows an interest in a toy he grabs it. I keep thinking this is getting better but then we’re back to square one.

I am worried about the impact it’s having on my marriage (I’m close to leaving tbh as I can’t cope) and our other child.

The laughter was the thing that reminded me above all of this boy I mentioned. It really did turn out to be a defensive/ anxious/ brave/sad thing even though, I agree, i know exactly what you mean and it looks belligerent and “ not bothered.” Even, dare I say it, a bit maniacal. I remember watching them tell him off at the table once when he was about 5 and this smile just twisted further and further up his face. The more he smiled the crosser they got so the more he smiled then would break out laughing. But inside he was hurting and the smile was a really brilliantly executed foil .

Once they broke through that appearance of him not caring, they really did get progress with him. 🤞Having seem that child, it sounds more like him struggling with knowing he isn’t behaving well but not knowing how to break his “ established persona” more than an ND type thing to me. I think he’s probably bright, perceptive, brave and quite emotional underneath.

If you want me to be open and honest about it, then you should read this quickly before it is removed by 'guidelines' monitors - I slapped my son out of such behaviour, consistently and gently at that age. I did it explaining - 'you slapped your brother? L:ike that? Here you are.' 'you hit your sister? here you are. This is how you hit your sister'. 'You pulled the dog's hair out? A hug on his hair - oh, is this unpleasant?' There it is. I said it. The best of it, he understood that it is painful and unpleasant and started sticking up for his mates in his nursery when other kids slapped or bullied them. Basically, it got through to him through feeling the unpleasantness of a slap, a hair pull, etc. And another one - oh, you pulled your sister's dolly's head off? See your truck? Well, it is not articulated anymore.

Definitely get his hearing checked. You can go private if you want a quick answer on this. It's the best thing I ever did with ds.

Thanks @Calliopespa . How did they get through? This is indeed very like DS: quite manic and it’s a horrible laugh.

Hearing is checked regularly

I get where you are with not with not pursuing a diagnosis and I think that is OK.

But, what I was saying that you can still use the parenting strategies that is typically used for ND kids and they might be helpful. IE pointing out things that might be going on in their body to help recognise and verbalise illness.

Think of it this way, if a teacher in a classroom has put up a visual timetable to help a ND child. There might be half a dozen NT children, who, for various reasons benefit from this.

Using these strategies aren't pushing you down a diagnosis path, that needs to a referral followed by an incredibly long painful wait. They are just useful strategies.

Apart from being illegal three miles down the road @RollyPol i KNOW that wouldn’t work with DS. It would make him angry not empathetic.

Hi OP. This sounds incredibly hard, and it's really brave of you to acknowledge that something is just not right. I feel that you might benefit from having some professional support to process how you're feeling with all of this. You will be in a better place to support your DC's different needs from a place of strength, particularly when there seems to be so much self-blame at play.💐

This is terrible advice.

If your son says at nursery "Mommy slapped me", you will have social services involvement.

Don't do it.

I'm sorry if this has already been said but the laughing thing caught my attention as my son used to do that too. For him, it was nerves. Me being cranky made him anxious and so he started nervous giggling, then would sometimes decide to 'style it out' but acting like it was deliberate and he couldn't care less that I was cranky. I ended up just ignoring the laughing. Reminded myself it was not personal, just a sign of how out of control he felt with his own emotions, and how unable he was to cope with the situations.
Also the pushing/hitting thing. Again sound super familiar and for us it was a sensory need. He needed firm/heavy feedback through his muscles & joints to feel his way back into his body... it came across as aggressive (& sometimes even self-harm) but resolved when we redirected to appropriate activities eg stretching one of those silicon bands you get at the physio, throwing a heavy 'medicine ball', even requesting a tight hug or a wrestling game with a safe adult.
The not caring about anything (toys, time out, etc)... look he's 3, he's little but he's old enough to understand this is a power game and telling you 'I don't care' makes him feel more powerful. Just pick some natural consequences eg if he throws a toy, it goes away. 'That's not safe, that toy needs to go away, we can try again tomorrow'. Take yourself out of the equation (eg the toy is going away not I am going to take that away) so it's less power struggle between you both, more emphasis on his choices.

My son is ND (Autism/ADHD) but as another poster said, you don't need to have a diagnosis to try some ND parenting strategies.

That's disgusting.

Why would you admit that on a public forum?

You didn't slap anything out of him, you stopped being his safe space.

You said 'you think you're bad, well look Mummy is worse'.

Child abuse is not OK, you are not a good parent.

Absolutely horrible post and terrible advice. I really hope politicians in England get their act together soon and the type of outdated discipline you recommend is made illegal.

They had to find moments of lavishing him with OTT affection. The mum especially was not an effusive type and so it was easy for her to connect with the eldest as he tended to do things she could praise very factually: look he’s won a reading prize; he’s finished his homework already; he’s been asked to move up to the juniors tennis team three years ahead of she group etc etc.

She had to learn to give affection that was just that: undeserved unconditional adoration. Even just start with “ come for a cuddle because I love you and I want you to feel it .” He’ll probably refuse at first! But the point is it isn’t dependent on what he’s done or his behaviour: you just love him cos you do. If he’s bright he’s probably wondering, as he will “ get” that his behaviour is off. Or if that seems OTT, build up from “ I’m happy to see you!” when you get him from nursery.

Of course you won’t have social service involvement for a child saying mummy slapped me.

One of the most frustrating things about MN is the lack of understanding about social services, who they are and what they do. Nurseries are not on the phone to social services every time there is a mark on a child or a child says their parent hit or slapped them. What they do rightly do is investigate such claims.

Social services are neither swooping upon families where random and unsubstantiated claims are made (see Arthur and Star to realise that even valid concerns are often not acted on) or a cosy hand holding service.

Thanks @Calliopespa

It is probably hard for him as of course I’m holding the baby a lot too.

Schools are obliged to contact SS if a child tells them they are being abused. It seems to me OP that you read the worst of everything so think all services are that bad.
'SS failed this child so never do anything.'
'Assessment waiting lists are long so they won't care about my child'
'GPs are snowed under so they won't help me'.
Genuinely, services are very stretched. But they are still there and doing their best to support people.

I haven't read the entire thread, but did read all the OPs posts.

@beinghonestherenow you sound exhausted

I notice you made several mentions to "I'll just be offered a parenting class". So? What's wrong with that option? I know it can sound offensive, but they can be really helpful. Either you can learn new techniques to try, be reminded of one's to revisit, or come away confident that you're doing what they'd advise. Many of these are run by professionals in mental health, social work support, HCAs, so are good places that you can flag up any concerns, and often lead to further support that you might not know is an option at this point.
And IF he does warrant further assessment in the future, this is one of the boxes you'll be expected to tick anyway, even if you know by that point there's more to it.

You mention still being a while off school... are you Scotland?

Just another ‘3 is the trickiest time’ comment… my eldest is 4 now and so much happened in a year. He had a phase of that laughing about doing something wrong thing which I found really hard!

To be honest with you, I wouldn't risk it.

It's one of the many reasons why we don't use physical discipline on our children.

You're right, social workers have failed children before, when there was serious abuse.

In other cases they can be overzealous though. It really comes down to the individual social worker, their manager and their workload.

They won't remove a child for being slapped, but I prefer not having to go through the investigation.

@Sweetpeadreams yeah thanks. I know. I know a little bit about it you might say.

Of course not all services are ‘bad’ but it doesn’t make them effective either. SS are a very stretched service and even in cases where a child is at real risk of harm they often aren’t able to intervene appropriately. But I don’t really know the relevance to this. I was simply pointing out a child saying ‘mummy slapped me’ at nursery would not mean SS appear unless there are other concerns as well.

I am not offended by being offered a parenting class but it’s not going to be useful without DH on board (not going to happen) and also the more noise you make when you’re not certain whether there is a problem or not means the less attention will be paid if there is a problem in the future.

With apologies for a MN cliché it sounds like you have a huge DH problem.

I think she was trying to help - and to that extent it was a brave admission.

But I think she was also fortunate that her dc responded that way: I’m sure most would get angry or even desensitised to the slapping and seeing their behaviour model doing it would exacerbate it.

I would also feel quite cruel .

However I think she posted with good intent: there was no other reason to out it.

Yeah this little guy had a baby brother. And when I say cute I mean cute: he was gorgeous and everybody responded to him that way. I kind of ached for the middle dc BUT the truth is this all added up so that he was often just a pita - which does make it hard!