SIL and BILs parenting style - is this okay or AIBU?

[shootingstar001]

Me and DH recently went on a short break with his sister and her husband.They have 2 children 2 and 5.

we live really far away so obviously we don’t see them super regularly but when we are all together we’ll do something with them for longer stretch of quality time like a trip or mini break.

we’ve both noticed before that they don’t seem to ever discipline their kids or say no - this is obviously a conscious choice they’ve made together. I’m aware that a ‘gentle parenting’ style is a bit more of modern choice but to me the complete lack of boundaries was really visible and really affected us and everyone around us. We both found it quite shocking especially in public settings like going for dinner etc. They seemed a bit oblivious but me and DH felt really tense by the end as there was always an ‘incident’ or two everyday. It did sort of ruin the end of the holiday.

Few of things that happened (sorry some of these are bit gross)

• Allowed their 2 yr old DS to wee in the shared villa pool
• Allowed 2 year old to poo in a public spaces (not in toilet)- pub garden/public park etc
• Allowed both kids to play a game throwing large rocks and pebbles at people walking by
• Their 2 year old is also going through a phase of punching - at one point wandering down some narrow packed touristy streets just windmilling around punching people walking by. BIL just stood passively and watched. The boy then had a massive crying tantrum when another tourist told him to stop. BIL comforted him about the ‘nasty man’
• Allowing 5 year DD to scream continuously in high pitched tone in restaurants (happened several times) - going through a phase of thinking it’s funny - both didn’t tell her to stop. DH did gently tell her a few times that we weren’t enjoying in perhaps other eating dinner might not like it either. Both parents said nothing.
• A lot of tantrums/fake crying - no intervention/words.

We never had kids so I’m really aware that I might not ‘get it’ - because of this we both feel that questioning someone parenting style might be a bit of a d**k move but it does really marr the time we spend with them.

Do we say something or just ride it out until the kids are a bit older and it’s everything is just a bit easier?

Really don’t want to damage my relationship with my SIL and BIL but also starting to dread family time with them. Advice please!

I think they're misinterpreting gentle parenting. It doesn't mean no intervention, it means corrective intervention in a way that is appropriate to cognitive development and expected social etiquette.

1. Tell me when you need a wee and I'll help you find the toilet, which is where wees go
2. Tell me when you need a poo and I'll help you find the toilet, which is where poos go
3. It's ok to throw rocks into water, but throwing rocks at people isn't allowed because it hurts them.
4. We use our quiet, indoor voices in restaurants so that we can hear each other talk.
5. Spinning your arms around is for bigger spaces, away from other people.

I know some people prefer not to say "no" because it gets repetitive and doesn't teach children anything if used repeatedly. It can also be pretty soul destroying (even for an adult) to hear "no" all the time. Positive parenting is about reframing negative language into something that's more acceptable. Using "no" sparingly means that when it absolutely has to be used, it's in situations that are dangerous to the child or other people. So if the child hadn't listened to the corrective phrasing around throwing rocks and windmilling, then "no" and a quick explanation of why not, is perfectly appropriate.

What you've described is an absence of parenting, which is neither positive nor gentle.

I think some of the comments on this thread about them being abusive/neglectful and should be reported are way too much though - I want to stress that they do provide a loving, affection, safe environment and their children are cared for
I am in no way saying they need reporting ( not sure who you’d report them to ) but they are being borderline neglectful because unless they plan to home school completely they are raising children who will get constantly told off by teachers etc who expect them to conform to some kind of ‘normal’ behaviour .

None of my children behaved like this. If yours do, then you need to buck your ideas up.

The screaming/ running around/ frequent tantrums is annoying for others (especially in restaurants) but not super unusual- especially for a 2 year old. Proponents of gentle parenting might not correct their kids doing that as technically it isn’t physically hurting anyone.

BUT no “gentle” parent would not stop their kids throwing stones at people - hurting others is the opposite of gentle parenting! 😡

Also while they might allow peeing (maybe even pooing) in an emergency in the bushes or something while out - kids intentionally doing that in the pool where other people could have contact with it could do physical harm , so it makes no sense to me why they wouldn’t correct that behaviour either 🤷‍♀️

My understanding is that “gentle parenting” means letting children express themselves, so no very strict behaviour rules/correction (like the old fashioned “children’s should be seen, not heard” or smacking ) but not at the expense of hurting others - especially physically! I don’t know of any child that isn’t told off for hurting someone.

oh good lord...

@Sharontheodopolodous what a surprise.......not!!

That’s not ‘gentle parenting’ as you called it that’s lazy parenting and I use the word parenting very lightly. They might be laughing now but in a few years when the kids are running riot and not listening to anything it won’t be as fun

Can you explain why no-one is allowed to call the SIL a bad parent without context but you're allowed to call the OP a shitty SIL without context? Why is your contextless judgement acceptable but no one else's is?

Seriously hope you are neither a parent or an actual advice aunt because it sounds like you'd suck at both. The context of that judgement is your response to this thread, in case you're wondering.

Are you for real? This is disgusting behaviour. If he isn't toilet trained then put a nappy on when you go out. But maybe this is the norm for you.

this is hilarious... you've all jumped on the bad parent band wagon based on one persons descritpion of events that happened...

ive said over and over the behaviour if the account it true.. is not good..

i will amend my comments too; bad parents hunt them down and burn them at the stake! this appears to be the normal response on MN... its actually so funny

Wow, I have a SEN child with very high needs and have to do low demand parenting to get them through the day.

I'd never let my child do any of that! When it starts to adversely affect others, I'd take them out of the environment, I'd keep them in nappies, I wouldn't let them hurt others!

It's sounds like they don't want to parent their kid at all. They're letting him behave poorly in ways that are affecting others like hitting etc. I understand not sweating the small stuff with little kids, like letting little Johnny eat sweet food before savory if it means he will eat more, but that's something which isn't negatively impacting others in anyway, so fair enough.

You can let a child express themselves without letting them be unsafe/rude/dirty/a pest to others.

Expressing themselves = choosing own outfit, choosing own ice cream flavour, choosing if they want to give a cuddle or just a wave goodbye

Allowing rudeness = allowing them to hit/punch then giving the ice cream with no please/thank you etc etc

They're creating monsters and it isn't even the childrens fault. Then they'll be monsters at school and the parents will wonder why all this bad behaviour is being noted when they're such 'little angels'

It's very sad - and I hope not true if I'm honest! I can't imagine not stopping my child peeing in a pool/hitting people/throwing stones at people!!

I'm happy to jump on the bandwagon where allowing children to throw large rocks at people is regarded as terrible (or non) parenting.

Yes, we only have what the OP says. If she is making it up or a troll or whatever then so be it. That is the case with every single post on MN.

Having read the thread I dread to think how @adviceaunt 's kids behave in public. Please do better. Your children will thank you for it.
That sounds unbearable OP, I wouldn't be going away with them again that's for sure! Can you not asked them directly why they are so passive? For example, when the children were throwing rocks at people did you not say anything?! I think I would have snapped at that point.

Firstly I thought I’d not go away with them again till the kids are older but then I realised the 5year old is so bad and their behaviour is just going to get more and more unbearable.

So maybe the odd day visit, to their house not yours as I’d worry they might trash the place. See them for a day and stay somewhere else on your own.

In the meantime if you do see them and the kids are like this I would speak up. Just because you haven’t had kids doesn’t mean you are devoid of common sense and that’s all parenting is.

If they weed in a communal pool I would say…..please don’t do that other people want to swim in there
If they are screaming in a restaurant I would say……can you ask ds/dd to be quiet I’m getting a terrible headache.
If they are throwing stones at people I would say…….ds/dd could hurt someone and they’d be well within their rights to get the police involved.

I would also leave the pub if someone at my table decided to poo in a bush. Even a kid.

You have more awareness and common sense than your relatives OP, the6 need help.

That's not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting has boundaries. That's permissive parenting. Zero boundaries. None of that is ok.

OP has clarified that they don’t claim to be gentle parents. She has mistakenly applied that term based on her misunderstanding of the concept.

Agreed. I didn't have dc until 36 but I sure knew this behavior was not remotely ok before that. It's common sense.

I read this thread and thought surely no-one is going to come on and defend this behaviour...but here you are. It's absolutely shocking that you said this to OP to defend feral scum parenting.

while there are 2 sides to every story, im going to guess the fact you do not have children shines through here...

So just to be clear, you have excused peeing and shitting in public. The stone throwing is the biggest reach however

allowing them to throw stones at people passing, as in here ya go jimy he's a good rock.. see who you can hit or jimmy was throwing stones and mum and did didn't immediately give them a punch?

It doesn't take a genius to know that you're a 'gentle parent'. Your type always come on and talk about violence against children as if that's what the rest of us do.

Not once have you acknowledged the parents lack of parenting.

I couldn’t spend much time with them. It’ll be harder for you to judge as you don’t have children but since having my own I am even less tolerant of shitty parenting. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone has moments where they take the easier path and give in to tantrum etc but it sounds like they just can’t be arsed. I wouldn’t have let mine do any of the things listed.

You're going on as if you're the only person who has taken their kids on holiday. All the rest of us managed it just fine. Control your kids.

I pity their poor teachers in a few years time. YANBU OP - I would avoid spending any time with them in the future and tell them their kids are feral and not pleasant to be around.

I don't think you need to be a parent to see clearly what is shite parenting! Those kids are going to be absolute arseholes.