My ex husband will not collect the kids from school on his days - what can I actually do?!

[Pleasegotobed]

It was an abusive relationship with coercive control. I’ve been doing all the school runs and dropping the kids to him on his days for a while because he threatened to withdraw my youngest from school without my consent / not collect him and at the time I could so it was just easier. But I’m starting a job soon (have been studying) so it just won’t be possible.

We don’t have 50/50 atm - they’re with me more. I’ve offered to change days if that helps but he won’t agree. He won’t agree that they stay with me more, he wants them dropped to him. Gave him over a months notice and he still just left them at school last week and then issued a sio citing that I am abusing the kids by not collecting them for him. Bizarrely he is also taking me to court for 50/50 at the same time…

Im planning to collect them and bring them to me so he has to pick them up but then he’ll just use me as free after school childcare won’t he?! But i can’t just leave them at school… I really don’t know what to do!

When I said not collect, I meant not collect until every option to get dad to collect was exhausted and the school was about to shut.

Do you really think anyone would recommend leaving the kids hanging around outside the school gate?

Im sorry I wasn’t explicit about that, but I didn’t think it needed saying. My point hasn’t changed in the slightest. Your understanding of it has.

So much sympathy @Pleasegotobed what a complete knob he is!
I'd make other arrangements for the pick up but keep everything documented and provable, so the ex doesn't look good in court when the time comes.

Well firstly, what an obnoxious knob he is! What's his excuse for not being able to pick the children up from their schools?
I wouldn't be able to just leave them and wait for the school to contact SS but if I had to pick them up, I sure as hell wouldn't be taking them round to him!

FWIW I think your plan to collect them when the school rings and bring them home with you is the right one, OP.

If he wants to see them he can collect them from you. I'd also keep a record of when it happens - maybe a standard email you send him that says he didn't collect them so the school called you and you have collected them, they are at yours if he wants to collect them for his time with them.

Each time I'd give him the 'chance' and then respond when the school rang me.

It does mean you are picking up his slack - which is unfair and infuriating - but also means he's not quite having it all his own way (they are not being delivered to him like an Amazon parcel) and the children don't ever feel forgotten.

But it is rubbish when one parent (usually the mum) is the one always bending over backwards for the children's welfare while the other just fannies about playing games.

@StormingNorman

"Pick up at the last moment if Dad absolutely refuses" is not what you said previously. Anyway, you and I both agree that is what OP probably needs to do

You have my sympathy. I have an ex like this. They don't have to follow the order if they don't want because the order is against the parent the kids live most with. But you have to follow it. The amount of times ex not bothered collecting and expects me to do it or more commonly he says if I don't pick them up from him he won't return them despite the order saying he does the travel to closet town for public handover.

You absolutely need to get the hang of grey rock. Eventually when you don't react they give up using kids to abuse you (when they get a new victim often) this usually means the drop contact and blame you to all and sundry but its better for the kids.

My advice is only communicated via email. Never ever answer the phone. Ensure school has to phone you every single time (even if you are sat waiting in the car ready) and that they make a note of it so you can prove he's just not collecting on his days. Inform school you are getting a job and that you have informed ex you can no longer collect on his days as per the court order. Then beg favours from friends family so you have a plan for when you get the inevitable call. It would be evidence if the school has to phone social services for an abandoned child but it will look bad on you more than him the world is misogynistic. I personally found when ex new I was working during contact time he took great joy in messing up my childcare to the point I now don't work during his contact as soon as I donor he knows I have plans he will cancel/just not turn up. Do a SAR to school now as it takes ages to get and ask for evidence of all contact they make with you when children not collected (and do it again in a couple months so you have the more recent incidents). Do SAR to everyone involved with your kids. I learnt this the hard way multiple people knew what ex was like but when it came to asking them for a witness statement for court they claimed they couldn't do it. I did the SAR but didn't get it in time- had I got it in time I would not have needed the statements as their own notes were clear my ex was abusive and using the kids to continue it.

Once you have the final order even now as you have an interim one just always say you will follow the court order whenever he contact you. No engagement or debate. See that court order as a shield to protect you from him.

Can you not simply collect them and take them home? If he texts asking where they are tell him he didn't collect them for his appointed contact time so you've taken them home. No he cannot come pick them up from you and you will not be dropping them at his, he's missed the contact as per court order. Have the school record his every refusal to pick them up.

At court present letter from school, say you can't be his childcare. He will be told he's responsible and must sort childcare if he wants them days.

This. Force him to take responsibility for the DC on his days by paying for after school care or finding a childminder to care for them. You are not his slave. Don't allow him to treat you as one. School will record which days DC are collected late. Make sure school have his schedule and if he doesn't collect on time let them call him and charge him late collection fees. Switch your phone off on his collection days.

This is his way of still controlling you. If he can’t pick his own children up from school on his contact days then he looses the right to have contact on a school day. End of. Do not listen to any threats that he gives you.

as school to record the days he refuses to collect children so you have evidence on the next court day.

First of all, do they actually want to go to their father's after school? What is he like with them? Is he controlling towards them too? Over a certain age (usually secondary), children's opinions will be taken into account when drawing up contact orders. If they don't want to go there, they can't be forced. It's very difficult to make an older child see someone they don't want to see. Are they aware of his abuse towards you?

Secondly, the advice to leave them to not be collected is awful. Imagine what that does to a child, especially if it keeps happening. They probably already feel like crap over it. Personally, I would be there at collection time on his days, so they can come straight out to you as normal. Then I would email the school as soon as you get home, and tell them they were left again on their father's contact day and you had to collect them. That way, both you and the school have evidence of every occasion this happens but the children aren't left wondering if someone is coming for them.

When you collect them, either go home and lock the doors, or go somewhere else for a bit. When he contacts you, let him leave a message so you have that as evidence too. Don't answer, don't call him, don't engage. Keep doing this, every time. If he comes round to your house, ignore. Get a Ring doorbell so you can record if he kicks off outside.

If he wants the children on his days, he collects them. If he doesn't collect them, he doesn't see them. End of. This is just a way to continue to control you after you've escaped from him, and using his children to do so just shows what a wonderful father he is 🤔

I would say to him that he should pick them up on his days you will not be around to pick them up. Explain to the school that is what you have said but that if he doesn’t you will pick them up. Pick them up from school and then keep them until he collects them (you can’t leave them at school) and get a paper trail of all of this
how old is your youngest

Don't block him. Just keep it civil. Hard as it is. Don't respond if he gets shirty.

Absolutely collect them.

What you need though is for school to ring him, and then ring you and log it. You’re evidence gathering.
Id also keep a detailed list yourself and screenshot the calls from school.

The pattern shows he has no intention of picking them up/arranging childcare. It is a pain for school but there is an end purpose in all of this. I’d also push to the court it’s impeding your ability to make appointments and work?
What you need is to know what your counter offer for contact is that works for you going forward, also makes you look reasonable and organised. Every other weekend and tea on the week he doesn’t seem them etc.

Yes I'd do this. Don't play games with the "picking them up at the last minute" "let them ring social services" this is the time to show that to you your kids are what matters

Great advice.
He is controlling you by this refusal and making you do the ferrying around.
If he wants the kids he picks them up. If he doesn't pick up he doesn't get them.
Involve police and SS if necessary and also keep separate screenshot of all messages etc so you can present it all to court

Has he ever given a reason for why he won't pick them up? Other than laziness?

Absolutely collect them.

But op can't collect them because of her job - that's the point!

The amount of people expecting school to deal with it. Ridiculous and a sign of todays selfish society.

Personally I'd be picking my children up, on time, and taking them home. He clearly doesn't want them if he can't be arsed to do a school run, why you would do his running around for him is beyond me.

"I'd explain to the head that it's his day of collecting, and if he doesn't show then to contact social services."

Really? You'd go into school, demand the headteachers time to talk about your ex and then tell her to ring social services to deal with your kids rather than you? Unbelievable

It’s not expecting the school to deal with it, school’s a neutral third party in a place of respect and safeguarding which can act as evidence in court.

Of course most schools would be happy to keep a record of this for the good of their pupils.
If she goes collect the kids and takes them home she’s in breech of the plans they have already made so looks like the uncooperative party which won’t stand I well in court.

Just picking them up means she has no evidence that he didn’t pick them up. It’s just a he said/she said.

Ive just reread and seen you are starting work soon. I think your hand will be forced to arrange childcare but you will still need to log that they haven’t been picked up by him. If they are a CM he’s not going to be able to get them later anyway is he?

I don’t know if the best thing is to pick them up with school calling etc. then when you start working send a solicitors letter informing him that as he has failed to collect his children on the following (many) dates, that you have arranged alternative childcare and they will no longer be available for visitation after school. That further arrangements will be made at the court date.

It's very clear that most people here have no idea how shitty it is for kids to be sitting alone in reception for half an hour at the end of school. I've sat with such children and they're invariably stressed and anxious and feel very awkward.

I appreciate that it seems the only way to gather evidence, but it's a shitty thing to put the kids through, and unfair to school staff.

@Pleasegotobed you need to make a copy of all the messages refusing to collect the kids from school.

You need to tell the school what his days are. The school needs to call him first. If he doesn't pick them up then you pick them up. Keep a diary of all of his days that he has failed to pick up.

If he fails to pick up from school then he needs to pick up from you. You don't take the kids to him EVER. If he refuses to collect them he's making a choice to not have contact.

He can't claim that he wants 50:50 and then refuse to do anything to facilitate that. In the meantime his impacting your ability to work and costing you money.

It sounds like he wants to control you and impact you more than he wants to see his kids.

I'd only communicate via text or email so you have a record of everything for court. I'm not sure on the rules of recording calls but that might be worth looking into if he is refusing to text and email. A parenting app might be a good tool moving forward.

If he's meant only to be picking up from school (i.e. not from your house or you dropping the kids to him), I'd tell him that if he misses pick-up, the kids will be coming home with you and he can pick them up from school the next time he is due to have them. You won't be dropping off to his house and he's not welcome at yours.

"If she goes collect the kids and takes them home she’s in breech of the plans they have already made so looks like the uncooperative party which won’t stand I well in court."

Rubbish. She's not in breach of anything if he doesn't turn up to collect his children. She can stand in the playground and if he turns up fine, if he doesn't then she can text and email and say "you haven't collected the children from school".

Print the texts and emails for court. Absolutely no reason to be leaving children scared and worried and waiting in reception while their headteacher calls social services under their mum's instructions. Ever.