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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of the breast is best brigade?

574 replies

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 15:13

Currently sat in a maternity waiting room, waiting to be told that I have a condition which I’ll need to take another round of antibiotics for. Which as I’m breastfeeding will probably give my 1 month old baby ANOTHER round of visibly uncomfortable oral thrush.

There is a video on the TV screen about how everyone should breastfeed playing on loop and what a bloody wonderful thing it is…

With my last baby I had such bad mastitis and suffered through until it was unbearable. The only advice my midwife ever offers now or offered then was keep going with the breastfeeding because…breast is best.

One of my friends had a low milk supply and her baby screamed day and night almost giving her a nervous breakdown until she reluctantly gave in and guiltily offered the baby a bottle.

I know I don’t want to keep giving my baby thrush through the antibiotics or pump all day for a smidgen of milk…so I’m going to switch to formula but something inside still feels guilty and like I’m not doing right by my baby because of the 9 months of people chiming on about how…breast is best.

For the sake of a mother’s mental health surely the message should be a bit more nuanced…

OK - Probably hormonal and living on chunks of 2 hr naps. Rant over!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Terraarts · 21/04/2024 18:20

Recordplayer

"UK has one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world. The campaigns you see are the government's feeble attempt at improving those rates, while at the same time refusing to invest in actual support. You should have access to a lactation consultant to help you treat causes of mastitis/bf problems, rather than a midwife who, through no fault of her own, has very poor breastfeeding education."

Yep, breastfeeding for 6 to 9 months is the optimum, well done the government for promoting this... that must be why maternity pay is only 90% of actual wages, to encourage new mothers not to waste money on formula milk... but, after 6 weeks, just as baby starts getting hungrier, maternity pay takes a dive south for the next 33 weeks, just to ensure mum keeps breastfeeding for the longest time possible. Governments are SO kind and caring towards new mothers and obviously make these financial decisions purely for the welfare of the next generation... What's that you say? "Misogyny"? How DARE you be so cynical, is that the sort of attitude you want to be passing on to the next generation along with your 'mother's milk'? So selfish of you...🙄😅😆 ✌🏾❣️

Kinshipug · 21/04/2024 18:22

Breast is best brigade
Fanatics
Breastapo

Singing praises of formula is different how exactly?

I'm really not sure what information or support people feel is lacking for formula feeding. The vast majority of British babies are formula fed, clearly the message is getting through just fine.

Feed your baby what you want, I don't care, I've done both, but evidently the judgement goes both ways...

Otherstories2002 · 21/04/2024 18:23

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 15:54

Thanks for all your responses…

Obviously hypothetically breast is best. It’s just like someone said, the simplicity of the statement.

Like is breast best on antibiotics, or with a struggling mum who can’t get a break because she’s exclusively breast feeding. Where is the research on that to just declare that breast is best?

For a happy mum with no issues and perfectly latched baby then yes - breast is best but maybe the messaging should be ‘if you for some reason want to use formula then that is often a good option.’ Throughout both my pregnancies I heard no mention of why FF might be necessary or something that would benefit me or my baby. And surely that is the real reality of the scientific evidence.

Edited

No. It’s not best hypothetically. It is simply the optimal for baby. It always the better option. But. Sometimes it’s not possible for an array of reasons. But that doesn’t alter that it’s best.

Notsurewhatsgoingonhere · 21/04/2024 18:24

fromthegecko · 21/04/2024 17:31

The breast is best brigade are not exactly on the front foot are they? I guess their advertising budget is a lot lower than Nestlé's. UK has the highest artificial feeding rates in the world, and there's a depressing culture of hostility towards breastfeeding. You are angry with the wrong people.

This 100%

laughing at the poster describing breastfeeding as “martyrdom”. It’s literally what you’re supposed to be doing! The only reason people feeling so stressed and anxious when they BF/have to hold their baby in the first weeks is because our rates are SO low they don’t realise that is what newborn life IS. Same with reduced sleep - that’s just life with a baby FGS. But because most people don’t BF mothers are confused and panicked and think they are doing something wrong When their baby isn’t sleeping or weight gain is slow. When you go elsewhere, with good breastfeeding rates, none of this stuff is an issue as everyone is in the same boat.

I couldn’t get worked up by the “breast is best” message they are trying to get out there - agree support is lacking massively but equally they are just doing their best to raise awareness which seems to be lacking, given the rates.

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:24

Kinshipug · 21/04/2024 18:22

Breast is best brigade
Fanatics
Breastapo

Singing praises of formula is different how exactly?

I'm really not sure what information or support people feel is lacking for formula feeding. The vast majority of British babies are formula fed, clearly the message is getting through just fine.

Feed your baby what you want, I don't care, I've done both, but evidently the judgement goes both ways...

I find this too. It is very hypocritical. Its like the only reason a mom would choose to BF her baby is to offend people who don’t

MsCactus · 21/04/2024 18:27

FuzzyWuzzyWuzABear · 21/04/2024 15:22

YANBU

But for your own sanity, try to care less.

Given the massive obesity crisis that's been facing children for years, a lot of the 'breast is best' preachers will then take their eyes right off the ball past the weaning stage.

Edited

Yeah, I knew someone who was so insistent on breastfeeding but then gave her kids MacDonalds several evenings a week.

It's bizarre how everyone cares about breastfeeding SO much, but then has no qualms about giving their children ultra processed food after then.

I think it's because both men and women can be responsible for making food for kids - but breastfeeding only women can do, so there's a misogyny there putting pressure on women to do it.

elizabethrosa · 21/04/2024 18:29

The amount of money that is made from making women feel like shit is appalling.

we all have to make the choices that sit well with us - sounds like you have and hopefully you will feel better soon and your baby will be happily fed. Maybe take headphones next time you’re there so you can avoid the adverts.

ps there’s an even mix between me and my friends of FF, pumping, BF, combi feeding and at some point we all felt like you do today. Welcome to the guilty mums brigade.

MsCactus · 21/04/2024 18:30

Otherstories2002 · 21/04/2024 18:23

No. It’s not best hypothetically. It is simply the optimal for baby. It always the better option. But. Sometimes it’s not possible for an array of reasons. But that doesn’t alter that it’s best.

Maternal depression has a HUGE measurable impact on babies - including their intelligence and cognition at age five.

Is breastfeeding is making a mum depressed - or lack of sleep from bf let's say, this is going to have a way worse impact on the baby than the benefits of breastfeeding. We need a more nuanced understanding of the science on this

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 18:34

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:24

I find this too. It is very hypocritical. Its like the only reason a mom would choose to BF her baby is to offend people who don’t

But no one on this thread has criticised mums who choose to breast feed.

I started this post and am currently a breast feeding mum. Who having been prescribed cream instead of oral antibiotics will now continue to breast feed…

Im criticising the judgement of women who can’t or decide not to BF and the lack of information given about potential breastfeeding issues during pregnancy.

How is this hypocritical? I don’t think mums who choose to BF should be judged either.

OP posts:
JKRIsRight · 21/04/2024 18:34

YankSplaining · 21/04/2024 17:44

I’m not going to read the thread, because I like my blood pressure the level it is, but I feel compelled to share my story here.

I have two daughters. I also have ADHD, have had clinical depression and generalized anxiety disorder since childhood, and had postpartum depression with both babies. I breastfed my first daughter for fifteen months, which contributed to my postpartum depression because for the first many months of her life, I could never spend more than two hours away from her. (Okay, we chanced it once and went to dinner and a movie after she was hopefully asleep for the next few hours, but I was feeding her again two hours after we got home.) This kid never, ever would drink more than a couple swallows from a bottle. I couldn’t be on my regular medications until she was weaned, and once she was, I felt so much better.

My postpartum depression was worse with my second baby, because I felt like I didn’t have the time, energy or patience to be a good mother to two kids. I felt like my relationship with my older daughter had evaporated because I was always breastfeeding my younger daughter, and sitting in the baby’s room with her started making me feel claustrophobic. It felt like I was rooted in one place and couldn’t escape. With both kids, I hated breastfeeding in public. I didn’t want to stick a red-faced baby under a blanket in 90 degrees Fahrenheit, and I didn’t want to sit in public with part of my breast exposed. One time in the library, this little boy just sat and stared at me for about ten minutes while I was breastfeeding.

I didn’t like any part of my life anymore, and I felt like I was irreparably damaging both of my kids. I started fixating on the idea that if I killed myself soon, they’d forget me, and my husband could have the chance to find them some shiny new mother who would be a better one than I was. He’s a good-looking guy who makes good money, and I could see a lot of women wanting to date this attractive widower with two precious, motherless little girls. It crossed my mind that maybe I could quit breastfeeding and go back on my regular meds, but “breast was best,” and the baby refused to drink from a bottle anyway. And it would be so unfair to quit breastfeeding her when I breastfed her sister for fifteen months.

I ended up holding a knife to my wrist and going to the psych ward - and I still wouldn’t quit breastfeeding. This was going to be my “supermother” story - not even a psychiatric hospitalization could stop me from doing the best thing for my baby! Only nothing had changed at all. I still felt like I was ruining my kids, I still felt intermittently suicidal, and I still felt like there was nothing about my life I liked anymore. I tried switching to combination feeding, but my daughter would launch Gandhi-esque hunger strikes until she was breastfed.

Finally, I just was not physically able to breastfeed this child anymore. My milk supply was fine, but I could not bring myself to unsnap the nursing bra and all the rest of it. I had to cold-turkey wean her. Then I got back on my regular medications, and it was like the part in The Wizard of Oz where the movie changes from sepia to full color.

My daughter only took about ten minutes to eat, not forty. Other people could feed her. I took my older daughter to the zoo, which was the first time she’d done anything with “just Mama” for seven months. I suddenly wanted to take both kids out in public, and I was excited for Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. I bought a plaster bust at a thrift store (charity shop), covered the whole thing in magazine paper, did the same thing to a battered toy horse, and won a blue ribbon for the horse at the state fair. (My younger daughter still refers to that horse as “Neigh-Neigh.”) I felt like a person again, not a depressed warm milk machine.

I wish I’d formula-fed both kids from day one, and actually enjoyed their early months. TL;DR: breast is not best if the baby’s depressed mother needs to get back on her regular psych meds so she quits feeling numb towards her children, and quits wanting to die.

This is similar to how I saw the world when I was attempting to bf..i have a history of anxiety and depression and mil comments about breast is best and awful formula tipped me over the edge.
I remember pumping desperately for 3 months putting so much pressure on myself and hating every minute. My right breast didn't produce enough milk but I didn't want to be lopsided.
I pumped 3-4 hourly then sat on the sofa trying to feed baby, who would feed for ages and ages and never seem full (this was true in the evenings as my milk supply dwindled from struggling to feed and latch on my right side). I got so frustrated trying to latch and being stuck sitting for hours I was starting to resent baby.
After 3 months I threw the pump in the bin and started formula and never looked back. My baby was suddenly content and sleeping and no more hungry cries, I felt like I could finally enjoy being a mother and look after myself.
Breastfeeding doesn't work for everyone and you shouldn't be shamed for giving up.

oberst · 21/04/2024 18:34

Breast is best.

But that doesn't mean by choosing to formula feed makes you any less of a mother.

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 18:35

elizabethrosa · 21/04/2024 18:29

The amount of money that is made from making women feel like shit is appalling.

we all have to make the choices that sit well with us - sounds like you have and hopefully you will feel better soon and your baby will be happily fed. Maybe take headphones next time you’re there so you can avoid the adverts.

ps there’s an even mix between me and my friends of FF, pumping, BF, combi feeding and at some point we all felt like you do today. Welcome to the guilty mums brigade.

I think this basically sums it up! 🙏🏽

OP posts:
TakeYourPavlovaAndFuckOff · 21/04/2024 18:36

HappyEater · 21/04/2024 15:22

Just ignore them all, OP

Do whatever is best for you.

FF is absolutely fine.

This to put it simply

Otherstories2002 · 21/04/2024 18:37

MsCactus · 21/04/2024 18:30

Maternal depression has a HUGE measurable impact on babies - including their intelligence and cognition at age five.

Is breastfeeding is making a mum depressed - or lack of sleep from bf let's say, this is going to have a way worse impact on the baby than the benefits of breastfeeding. We need a more nuanced understanding of the science on this

Missed the point.

CuttingMeOpenthenHealingMeFine · 21/04/2024 18:40

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:24

I find this too. It is very hypocritical. Its like the only reason a mom would choose to BF her baby is to offend people who don’t

I very much found this with my babies, almost everyone around her FF’s, I didn’t see a single other BF’ing mother in the hospital (and yes so what, who cares - just showing how prevalent FF is here).

So many snide comments about ‘tits being out’ or ‘showing off’, loads of crap from family members about the babies feeding too much, not sleeping through quick enough, dad not being able to feed them (he didn’t care he still held them, bathed them, changed them - and occasionally gave an expressed bottle when I could be arsed pumping but I could hardly get anything out that way so it was very rare!).

Had a hospital consultant say he ‘hated dealing with BF babies’ when I couldn’t tell him how many oz. Milk my DD had taken that day when she was being seen for at A&E.

The overall culture where I live (West of Scotland) is FF and it’s like you have two heads if you choose to breastfeed.

AgeGapBbe · 21/04/2024 18:43

I’m 22 weeks pregnant and won’t be breast feeding. I have ‘tubular breasts’ which will make breastfeeding (if it’s possible in the slightest for me) harder and full time breastfeeding impossible. I’ve bought some beautiful bottles and got some kendimill ready bottles for the hospital. I feel fine about it really, I know ‘breast is best’ but really only if it’s not at the detriment of the health of the mother (mental and physical) and baby does well on it.

theholesinmyapologies · 21/04/2024 18:43

Why I pumped/formula fed mine via bottle after a terrible start with the first one.

Fed is best. End of.

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:43

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 18:34

But no one on this thread has criticised mums who choose to breast feed.

I started this post and am currently a breast feeding mum. Who having been prescribed cream instead of oral antibiotics will now continue to breast feed…

Im criticising the judgement of women who can’t or decide not to BF and the lack of information given about potential breastfeeding issues during pregnancy.

How is this hypocritical? I don’t think mums who choose to BF should be judged either.

I’m not calling YOU a hypocrite OP. I don’t disagree with your point, at all. I am criticising the judgement of women that do BF. This thread has been tame compared to some I have seen but there have still been snide comments about ‘earth mother types’ etc

LouOver · 21/04/2024 18:44

A brigade is 5,000 soldiers. There are 600,000 live births each year in the UK. The breastfeeding rate after 6 months is one percent.

The issue isn't the advertisement, its that women breastfeeding infants are a 'literal' brigade in numbers because its so low.

Hardly winning the fucking war against formula.

WannabeMathematician · 21/04/2024 18:48

Otherstories2002 · 21/04/2024 18:37

Missed the point.

What’s the point they missed?

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:48

CuttingMeOpenthenHealingMeFine · 21/04/2024 18:40

I very much found this with my babies, almost everyone around her FF’s, I didn’t see a single other BF’ing mother in the hospital (and yes so what, who cares - just showing how prevalent FF is here).

So many snide comments about ‘tits being out’ or ‘showing off’, loads of crap from family members about the babies feeding too much, not sleeping through quick enough, dad not being able to feed them (he didn’t care he still held them, bathed them, changed them - and occasionally gave an expressed bottle when I could be arsed pumping but I could hardly get anything out that way so it was very rare!).

Had a hospital consultant say he ‘hated dealing with BF babies’ when I couldn’t tell him how many oz. Milk my DD had taken that day when she was being seen for at A&E.

The overall culture where I live (West of Scotland) is FF and it’s like you have two heads if you choose to breastfeed.

I had similar. I really wanted to BF DS but we struggled to begin with. First 24 hours in hospital after the birth and the midwives were desperate to get me out of there but couldn’t let me go until they could see that we were feeding successfully. The amount of comments they made about how I could just go home if I switched to formula amongst other thingy veiled comment about it didn’t help.
I had people telling me that he was small because I was BF (not true) as well as countless comments about when I should be stopping.

FlyingHighFlyingLow · 21/04/2024 18:52

In the absence of all other factors breast is best. Direct comparison, breastmilk wins. Doesn't mean formula isn't best for a mum and baby due to other factors. But in the UK formula is mostly used. Less than 12% of people are still exclusively breastfeeding at 4 months, 1% at 6 months.

I'm one because it was right for me. But I've had so many comments about giving my baby a bottle! Apparently it'll make him sleep, he's not sleeping because he's a big boy and he's hungry. When he got diagnosed CMPA at 4 months lots of 'well at least you don't need to give up dairy for long' because they couldn't understand I might breastfeed after 6 months.

Breastfeeding rates in the UK are lowest of anywhere and rather than putting more infrastructure in place to support breastfeeding mums they think it's because they need to educate mums on the benefits. Instead that serves only to make mums feel guilty about making the best choice for them.

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 18:54

FuckOffTom · 21/04/2024 18:43

I’m not calling YOU a hypocrite OP. I don’t disagree with your point, at all. I am criticising the judgement of women that do BF. This thread has been tame compared to some I have seen but there have still been snide comments about ‘earth mother types’ etc

Fair enough. I agree that BF Mums shouldn’t be judged either.

OP posts:
Jimmyneutronsforehead · 21/04/2024 18:56

Bex5490 · 21/04/2024 15:54

Thanks for all your responses…

Obviously hypothetically breast is best. It’s just like someone said, the simplicity of the statement.

Like is breast best on antibiotics, or with a struggling mum who can’t get a break because she’s exclusively breast feeding. Where is the research on that to just declare that breast is best?

For a happy mum with no issues and perfectly latched baby then yes - breast is best but maybe the messaging should be ‘if you for some reason want to use formula then that is often a good option.’ Throughout both my pregnancies I heard no mention of why FF might be necessary or something that would benefit me or my baby. And surely that is the real reality of the scientific evidence.

Edited

It should really be that breastmilk is best for babies unless it's medically indicated otherwise.

If a baby has an allergy, or it puts mum at risk of depression, or a plethora of other issues, then in those individual cases it's not best in those unique circumstances.

However, healthy baby and healthy mum, breast milk is the best milk, because of the Ig and antibody factors, the size of the proteins and carbohydrates being absorbed through the GI tract, the link to bovine serum albumin and diabetes in some children, etc.

It's up to each mum to decide if they're things they want to consider. There's always going to be a societal factor, and it's a privileged position to say it went well for me and I was supported and trained to support others, however initiatives were being scrapped across the UK because of poor take-up which means the support couldn't be there for those who wanted it at all.

I also had to fight for my right to express milk when back at work as I had an oversupply, repeated mastitis and abscesses and that was towards the end of our journey, and if I knew I'd have had to go through that battle I would have been more relaxed about combi feeding throughout my maternity leave, but I still think that breast milk was the best thing for my baby even if it wasn't ideal to breastfeed because of the situation I found myself in.

Do what's right for you, don't feel bad about your choice, it's nobody else's business.

I will always support the message though that breast is best because the services used to support breastfeeding are facing a use it or lose it cut.

GoodnightAdeline · 21/04/2024 18:58

@FuckOffTom the clue is in the thread title though. Literally no formula feeding mums are as invested in the choices of breastfeeding mums as vice versa - to the extent they want advertising bans, petition against it, basically massively interfere in something that has nothing to do with them

Call me back when formula feeding mums sign petitions to ban the advertising of breastfeeding products, try to suppress unflattering research or demand things like pumps are ‘bought by prescription only to discourage it’

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