To be sick of the breast is best brigade?

[Bex5490]

Currently sat in a maternity waiting room, waiting to be told that I have a condition which I’ll need to take another round of antibiotics for. Which as I’m breastfeeding will probably give my 1 month old baby ANOTHER round of visibly uncomfortable oral thrush.

There is a video on the TV screen about how everyone should breastfeed playing on loop and what a bloody wonderful thing it is…

With my last baby I had such bad mastitis and suffered through until it was unbearable. The only advice my midwife ever offers now or offered then was keep going with the breastfeeding because…breast is best.

One of my friends had a low milk supply and her baby screamed day and night almost giving her a nervous breakdown until she reluctantly gave in and guiltily offered the baby a bottle.

I know I don’t want to keep giving my baby thrush through the antibiotics or pump all day for a smidgen of milk…so I’m going to switch to formula but something inside still feels guilty and like I’m not doing right by my baby because of the 9 months of people chiming on about how…breast is best.

For the sake of a mother’s mental health surely the message should be a bit more nuanced…

OK - Probably hormonal and living on chunks of 2 hr naps. Rant over!

Sure. You do realise why some women may not want to use them for that?

The uterus is designed to grow a foetus to a baby, do you understand why some women don't want to use it for that?

Both male and female bodies are designed with survival of the species and reproduction at their core, but we have other aims too in modern life and isn't that wonderful.

I think public messages should be based on facts and helping to inform people better. Some have said the evidence is weak to support the message - well then decisions on whether to promote it should be based on that and not on how it might upset some people. People need to learn that not everything needs to be tailored for them. There are benefits to a vaginal birth, for example, but I didn’t have one. It’s on me to control my response if I see info promoting these benefits.

That's very simplistic.
For a start, women don't fall neatly into "can't" and "won't" and even if they did, the reasons why women don't want to breastfeed are complex. I would think the number of women who choose formula because they actively don't care about looking after their babies is so miniscule that it is irrelevant.
Britain has some of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world and there is no one reason for that. It's not likely to be because British women are significantly physically different to mothers in other countries but nor is it likely to be because they love their babies any less and suggesting that it is does nothing to help anyone.

Another goady poster ! You do realise there are many decisions you have to make as a parent. Breast feeding doesn’t make you a good parent.

DT’s were solely formula fed and have grown up healthy and happy. Brilliant young adults that DH and I are very proud of

Yes, I understand and sympathise (empathise really), and agree with what you've said. I pumped a little with my first baby, and disliked it for similar reasons, and for the next two babies, decided not to pump at all (which was great). However, for my fourth, I had to exclusively pump for the first two weeks before a tongue tie was sorted out. I'll add another reason to those you've mentioned, as to why I dislike it so much. I spent so much time expressing that, quite often, baby needed feeding while I was pumping and I didn't have hands free to manage. So my dh would feed him. This meant that I spent hours producing the milk, but didn't get so many of the lovely cuddly feeds, which my dh got. I felt like a milk machine with none of the benefits. Thank goodness he came back successfully to the breast in the end!

Anyway, when you do make the switch to formula milk, do make sure you keep either expressing /feeding while you swap, if you have an oversupply. You'll need to slowly and gradually decrease the feeds/pumps, so that your milk supply gradually decreases too, and you don't make problems for yourself with engorgement. Gradually you can increase the formula feeds. You probably know this already, but just in case! Good luck!

I think it's best to ignore posters like that. They're either deliberately winding people up to provoke an argument, or they just don't have the intelligence to understand the bigger picture, and the many levels that exist in decision making around this subject, in which case trying to educate them is pointless and frustrating.

@Somethingsnappy thank you! Yes I had that problem with my first so this time I decided not to pump, although mainly to prevent oversupply, yet I still ended up with it!

I currently have cabbage leaves down my bra in hopes it’ll aid me in some way whilst I reduce feeds. I’m just hoping it doesn’t take too long. My blood pressure is through the roof So I’m constantly at the doctors and I just need my old meds asap!

thank you for the supportive reply xx

I agree with this and it’s a shame they kept coming on here. This is one of the better threads I have seen on infant feedings. Good points made from both BF and FF mothers and a great many with respect and sensitivity

That sounds really tough. Hopefully if you drop a feed every two or three days, it should go reasonably smoothly, and shouldn't take too long. If it gets to the point that you really want to start the meds again, but haven't quite dropped every feed yet, you could always pump and dump for the final few days?

Yes, I agree! It's been an interesting thread with valuable replies.

The irony is, posters who make these nasty comments about other people's parenting, are most likely lacking in that department themselves, since good parenting needs a good level of empathy and emotional intelligence.

Truly truly depressing.

DGAF whether anyone else uses formula or not but it's totally messed up to try and pretend that it is any way comparable to breast feeding -
Not even pumping - as the babies saliva should be on the nipple so the milk can respond to the baby's needs.

Do what you need to do to get though the days and the nights. Your baby, your boobs, your business.

But pretending they're comparable is like gaslighting imo.

Women’s rights are in the doldrums with some posters on this thread

proper depressing

Exactly!

women can do what they want with their own bodies - hurrah! @Pottedpalm

I’m not sure whether you’ve read the whole thread but 99% of posters have agreed that liquid vs liquid, obviously breast milk is better. I haven’t heard 1 person argue against that.

Collectively, we have agreed that there should be more research into the long term differences but there isn’t because of funding.

Most have agreed that the current simplistic narrative given by midwife’s and the support post birth doesn’t have the desired effect of increasing BF. Women are often left not knowing about potential issues and therefore either feel like failures or don’t know all of their options for feeding.

I agree with @FuckOffTom that the thread has been respectful and I’ve actually learnt things I didn’t know so I think most here would also agree that your post and accusation of gaslighting is unhelpful and unwelcome here.

@ToryHater

its not selfish to want your body back to yourself for example after having to share it for the best part of a year

there is no selfish reasons to stop breastfeeding

if you can’t or won’t, whatever all is fine. Women are no less important than their babies

Rather than going on about breast is best blah blah, if the NHS, midwives, Gov, whatever, really want to improve BFing rates there'd be better off launching a campaign to combat some of the very very common misconceptions people believe about BFing which in turn lead them to not wanting to/being successful BFing. Less of shaming FF (because fed is best) and more educating women on how to be successful BFing should that be their desire. I volunteer at a BFing group (as you can probably surmise I BF my kids) and some people have such strange ideas in their heads, usually from their mothers or MILs

I reckon a lot more women would be successful BFing (again, if they want to BF, if they don't then crack on and don't BF!) If they were told antenatally that:

• Yes, BFing can hurt sometimes especially at the start. Severe pain is abnormal and seek help, but your nips probably have never had that kind of stimulation before, if you find it a bit uncomfortable at the start that's totally normal
• If you want/need to give formula especially in the first 6 weeks or so, and you want to protect your milk supply, you really must pump to replace the equivalent FF feeds given. So many women say they have supply issues, but in reality they replaced many many feeds with formula in the early newborn period, and then in turn don't make enough milk, so give more FF and it becomes a vicious cycle until they stop BF entirely (fully aware some women have low supply no matter what, but an awful lot have supply issues that happen could have been prevented with better education)
• Clusterfeeding is normal. Suckling for comfort is normal. Baby putting their hands in their mouth isn't a sign of hunger. Sleep regressions usually have nothing to do with supply or BFing
• Tummy to mummy. Don't hold your baby like they do in films when bottle feeding

I do think it is worth noting that a huge amount of the stigma around breastfeeding, and the lack of adequate support is deeply rooted in misogyny. Can't talk about women's right without acknowledging the environment in which women are making these choices.

What’s depressing about parents right to choose how they would like to feed their baby?

I don't think any research needs to take place to be frank.

Powder made up of different things cannot benefit a baby more than breast milk.
But is it adequate enough for babies to thrive and grow? Yes, as we have clearly witnessed.

At the end of the day - breastfed or not. They end up having a sip of coke and a happy meal at some point!

For me a mother with poor mental health because of the pressure of breastfeeding is worse for a baby than bottle feeding.

Ok, but having used your uterus to grow the baby ( not sure what else you could use it for), why then not, if you can, choose to use your breasts to feed the baby? What other ‘aim of modern life’ are you fulfilling?

That point of view is just so sad and so alien to me. The human race has only survive because of parents ability to prioritise their young, Wanting to give their yound the best start, and pass on your genetic baton, id the fundamental purpose of every species on the planet.

Please quote your sources

Not just a Tory hater, then

OP have you asked for a referral to your local infant feeding team? There are lots of breastfeeding safe antibiotics that won't make your baby sick, or proactive treatments that will stop you and your baby developing thrush. There are lots of options.

As for the way you feel about the 'breast is best' concept. It's awkward, but there's truth in it. Breastfeeding is the biological norm, and artificial milk is inferior and carries health risks for babies and mothers, both long and short term. It sounds to me like you had terrible advice and support during mastitis with your first, and now similar is happening again.

Please contact Association of Breastfeeding Mothers, La Leche League, Breastfeeding Network or your local NHS breastfeeding support team, ask to have a chat with someone to discuss your options, because this isn't a simple decision.