To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

[rosesrredviolets]

DD aged 15 shared a bedroom with a trans girl (born a boy) on a school trip. Dd only found out the sleeping arrangements whilst on the trip and we only found out later. I presumed that trans students would have their own bedrooms at this age. Am shocked not to have at least been asked by school in advance. However it would appear that the policy given to schools is that sharing is fine.

Oh, I'd be raising absolute hell.

OP, you must take action on this.

This is a huge safeguarding risk.

How many female children do you feel is acceptable to be harmed before you feel that safeguarding processes need to be tightened to ensure that no school thinks that this should even be considered?

1? 2? 10? 100?

Mine is 0. Yours?

@rosesrredviolets article here re trans inclusion toolkit

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/13/schools-in-england-and-wales-using-gender-toolkit-risk-being-sued-by-parents

(if that’s the one you or another poster was referring to). Worth sending to the school…

Schrödinger's situation.

It would never happen (because it's too outrageous) yet it's absolutely no big deal if it does.

The gaslighting is off the scale 🙄

The fundamental question.

Let's have your number @BedBugs5

I also wonder what the genderists consider harm. Because the moment a boy is placed in a private space with girls, and the girls can't object to it, that is harm.

Exactly. Just being there is a big 'no', no physical attack needs to happen. What is it about that they don't seem to get?

I think they do get it. They just don't care.

I consider the actions that result in a child having lowered boundaries and being unable to recognise that their boundaries have been lowered to be very harmful.

Ultimately, who benefits from any child having lowered boundaries? It is not the children with lowered boundaries.

This.

Yes

@Helleofabore

This is a complex issue in my view. What I do know is that the number of trans young people is tiny and the issue has been blown out of all proportion. Cis girls are far more likely to be harmed by a cis male or female known to them.

These things need to be considered on a case by case basis, balancing the needs of the trans students and others. In some cases, that will mean trans young people being accommodated alongside cis young people of the same gender. Trans young people are stigmatised enough, and this is a supportive measure.

In some cases, more bespoke solutions may be necessary (for example, when there is a history of bullying from cis girls in the school towards the trans student) and it wouldn’t be safe for them to share accommodation.

That's your boundaries and beliefs that all children at 15 are sexually interested in each other. The majority aren't.

I would never have been bothered about sharing with a boy and would have just used the bathroom to get changed. But I would have done that with a room full of girls aswel.

OP ask your daughter how she feels and if she wants you to do anything. Her views matter more than any gender ideology on MN, if the school makes a drama out of it, it could be her who is bullied if say the school cancels all trips to prevent it happening again.

No. It is not complex.

You actively dismissed children’s safety with your comment.

So. How many female children do you consider is acceptable to be harmed to any degree before you agree that safeguarding those children should be the priority?

If your answer is ‘it is complex’ and not 0, you are not advocating strong safeguarding of children.

@BedBugs5, what about the rights of girls to single sex spaces for dignity and privacy? Or do you just not think that’s very important?

As an adult, if I went on a work trip, I would not want to share a room with a male colleague, regardless of how nice they are. Should I have the right to refuse that? If so, a teenage girl should also have that right.

It is immaterial how rare the presence of trans identifying teens are or how marginalised you believe them to be. None of that justifies putting girls at ANY additional risk. Other arrangements should be made for this child that don't involve sharing with the opposite sex. It's not actually complex at all on that level.

I didn’t bring ‘sexual interest’ into it. You have though.

My belief in boundaries is not limited to sexual boundaries. And your comment about ‘I would never have been bothered’ is an indication of your own boundaries.

OP it's irrelevant how your Dd feels about it.

You have to deal with it and teach her that the erosion of her boundaries for male performance of femininity is not going to happen.

I am fuming on your behalf here.

@BedBugs5
Firstly, you’re surely not so stupid as to not understand the difference between absolute numbers and %?

Secondly the harm in question is not limited to sexual or physical assault (not sure how you can’t recognise this).

Thirdly, because there’s such a small number of boy on girl sexual assaults when they share accommodation on residentials, do you also think it’s ok for biological girls to be required to share sleeping and personal care space with biological boys?

In fact your posts are so extreme I sense that rather than being your opinions you are a TRA accessing mumsnet to post deliberately provocative comments.

OP ask your daughter how she feels and if she wants you to do anything. Her views matter more

OP your poor daughter is being gaslit to believe that her boundaries and safety don't matter. She's very young and may be coerced into something now that she may regret later.

She needs adults to stand up and insist on proper safeguarding for her. The exact opposite of what this poster is suggesting.

@Helleofabore

Virtually every situation in life carries risk. In many cases these can clash. Nothing is zero risk.

Me blood boils. Girls don't feel they can object to trans girls sharing rooms etc of they appears transphobic.

Just another way womens rights are being eroded and made to please men.

And I say this as a mum of boys

This

As soon as the word 'cis' is used my hopes for any intelligent argument diminishes rapidly.

Yet that is never generally used as an excuse to abandon basic safety measures.

If there are clashing risks, then new solutions need to be found.

How little you must care about young girls is you think it's acceptable to compromise their safety for males. I find that absolutely breath taking.