To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

[rosesrredviolets]

DD aged 15 shared a bedroom with a trans girl (born a boy) on a school trip. Dd only found out the sleeping arrangements whilst on the trip and we only found out later. I presumed that trans students would have their own bedrooms at this age. Am shocked not to have at least been asked by school in advance. However it would appear that the policy given to schools is that sharing is fine.

Sometimes risk is unavoidable, yes.

In some situations, risks can be identified and then very easily avoided- this is absolutely essential in the safeguarding of children.

@Coldfeetandnocleansocks your approach sounds measured and sensible

Safeguarding children is based on understanding risk and minimising it. Society understands (based on evidence) that women / girls are at risk from men especially when vulnerable (undressing, naked, sleeping etc) which is why single sex spaces exist.
Why do you think girls must be taught that they have no right to say no to a boy or man wanting access to them when they're undressed, showering, sleeping etc?
You're teaching girls that their role is as support humans for males with no rights to privacy of their own.

Please tell us in detail why any male child, in any stage of transition or not, should be treated differently from all other male children in the UK? What occurred to that male child that has made them in any way different to any other male child?

If one male child is to be allowed special treatment under robust safeguarding protocols to be allowed to share a bedroom, what other male child can be also given this special treatment when in a similar situation of being away with a group? Will another bullied male be given this exemption from being treated as male for the purposes of safeguarding? Just because they are bullied?

Why can’t just all male children be allowed to share a bedroom with female children?

Can you provide the list to follow that your believe qualifies any male child for special exemption from being treated as a male child for safeguarding purposes?

I wonder how someone gets to that place

Case by case basis? Erm, no.

If I was leading a trip and was told that I had to allow mixed sexes in rooms, I would no longer lead that trip.

Please take action. A lot of schools will still have policies which were based on the old trans tool kit. In it it is absolutely the case that the advice will be not to share the trans info, to let the child choose the changing room/slewing etc that they would be most comfortable in and to “educate” other children to be kind and accept.

when I was a school governor I asked to the impact assessment which the school had confidently said that they had done. But it was one way only - ie the impact of the trans student feeling sad.

there was no impact assessment on the effect on other children (eg religious students self excluding, sports injuries, even teenage pregnancies resulting from shared sleeping arrangements) and a stunned silence when I pointed this out.

I am no longer a governor but hope that the school did sort itself out.

I see.

So because you believe that every situation carries risk, you are fully accepting that some children should be given less safeguarding protection over others?

That rather than choosing to safeguard both children equally, the female child should have to accept they are not deserving of the strongest safeguarding protection because you feel a male child has priority. And that female child now has had an adult tell them that their privacy and their safety doesn’t matter and that they should accept lower boundaries because a male person has priority.

So, tell us please, how many female children are acceptable to be harmed in any way before you consider your position was wrong? 1? 2? 10? 100?

Even if that were a logical approach to safeguarding, which it isn't, what you are suggesting should happen is not what has happened.

If this situation had been considered on an individual case basis, balancing the needs of the trans student against the needs of others, both the OP's daughter and the OP would have been asked by the school if they were OK with this, in advance of the trip.

Instead, the OP's daughter turned up on a school trip and was told, without any advance warning, that she was to be sharing a room with a child of the opposite sex. And the poor child has been so gaslit that she did not even say anything, not to the school and not even to her own mum. The OP would still be in total ignorance of the fact that her daughter had been put at risk if she hadn't thought to ask what she thought was a pretty inconsequential question. So the OP was kept in the dark about a serious safeguarding issue affecting her daughter.

Nobody except the trans child has been taken into account. There has been no balancing of needs here.

And for what it's worth, any adult who had even the most basic understanding of safeguarding and had not been brainwashed by gender ideology would put two opposite sexed teenagers in the same sleeping accommodation, even if both students asked to be together and their parents were fine with it.

Well done for raising it. It’s unbelievable how bad adults are at remembering girls (and all children really) in these situations

So, don't complain in case all trips are cancelled? A school that cancels all educational trips to placate one boy child has bigger problems.

Also, suggesting that complaining will lead to OP's child being bullied is a gorgeous bit of victim blaming.

Lovely work all round on protecting the patriarchy and making sure women know their place.

I just read your post Keating, it is remarkable isn’t it.

It is so clear that some posters believe that lowering safeguarding measures for female children to prioritise male children’s expectations of sleeping in accommodation with female children in this situation is acceptable in any way.

Playing devil's advocate here.

A 15 year old girl and a 15 year old boy are in a relationship.

They ask to share a room on a school trip.

Teacher says no, because safeguarding.

In an alternative scenario.

The same 15 year old girl and 15 year old boy are in a relationship.

The boy tells the teachers he now identifies as a girl.

They ask to share a room on a school trip.

Teacher says yes, because trans.

Parents are not told.

They have sex and the girl gets pregnant.

What risk is there is a trans girl shares a room with a boy?

What risk is there if a trans girl shares a room with another trans girl?

What risk is there is a trans girl has a single room?

Just musing over this thread a bit more, and I remembered a conversation I had a few years back with my own child's school - there is a girl who identifies as a boy there, in the year above my own child, they are friends. Before my daughter went on an overnight trip, I enquired about the sleeping situation and raised my safeguarding concerns, since I knew the school 'affirmed' this female child's chosen boy presentation. They confirmed that any opposite-sex identified student would be given private sleeping accommodation, for clear and obvious safeguarding reasons. I didn't want my own child to be put in an unsafe situation where she couldn't speak up for fear of being branded 'transphobic' but equally, I wasn't comfortable with the idea of a male-presenting girl bunking with the boys - that would have been such a terrible choice for everyone concerned.

Single sex spaces are important for both girls and boys.

Do you think a trans boy would be safe sleeping in a room full of 15 year old biological boys?

Would you be happy with that situation?

Consideration needs to be made to everyone in this situation, which will always mean the kid having a room alone. That protects the privacy and dignity of everyone involved and doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.

Please raise the issue with the school OP.

There are other reasons for some children to be in either a single room or some other non-standard arrangement. A child with a stoma bag is one that comes to mind as an example.

This kid is a boy just like all the other teen boys on this trip. He is a male teenager.

We don't put boys and girls in shared rooms on school trips because it's a safeguarding risk.

If the school don't want to put him in a shared room with other boys then they should provide a single room.

Sick of this humpty dumpty word salad bullshit that tries to convince everyone black is white. Students and their parents deserve better than being lied to, especially the girls and their parents.

Of course their sex is important! The school has put a boy in with girls! Huge safeguarding fail.

The genitalia of another child is absolutely none of your concern

Can you explain? I hold you be happy with this arrangement?

Funny how the trans boys can share with the girls but the trans boys can’t? Why is that exactly?

It’s all one way isn’t it?

I do wonder if these trans boys wear swimming trunks, get changed in the boys changing rooms, so the same sports as the boys etc -

ALL the trans children in DDs year group are now in boy/girl relationships and not longer indenting as the opposite sex.

How people aren’t seeing the brain washing is beyond me: These kids need help to get away from this brainwashing.

What do you define as harm? If girls are uncomfortable changing in front of a biological male and are too afraid to say anything for fear of being called transphobic by their peers, is that harm?

This is a complex issue in my view. What I do know is that the number of trans young people is tiny and the issue has been blown out of all proportion. Cis girls are far more likely to be harmed by a cis male or female known to them.

These things need to be considered on a case by case basis, balancing the needs of the trans students and others.

No. The solution, as always, is a third space. In this case, a separate room for the trans-identifying student. If you are under the impression (for some reason) that trans people do not harm girls and women, then maybe go and look at the offending rates and types of crimes in prison statistics.

The number of trans young people is totally irrelevant. Girls are predominantly harmed by male people. Trans-identifying males are still male. There is literally no less reason to separate a trans-identifying male student than any other male student from the girls' bedrooms. If this is ok, then why have separate boys' and girls' bedrooms at all?

Let me put it another way then.

If every situation carries risk, why do you advocate for female children to carry the burden of increased risk? Why are you adding to that base level risk that every situation carries?

For a philosophical belief that you seem to fully support, in fact, seem ideological driven to support.

Why should any child accept low safeguarding standards because of a philosophical belief over material reality ?

How many incidents have there been of trans girls harming cis girls on school trips?

Presumably hardly any, as most schools would hopefully have the sense not to do this.

Virtually every situation in life carries risk. In many cases these can clash. Nothing is zero risk.

What are the risks involved in giving the trans-identifying student their own room?