To be shocked not to be told trans student sharing bedroom on school trips

[rosesrredviolets]

DD aged 15 shared a bedroom with a trans girl (born a boy) on a school trip. Dd only found out the sleeping arrangements whilst on the trip and we only found out later. I presumed that trans students would have their own bedrooms at this age. Am shocked not to have at least been asked by school in advance. However it would appear that the policy given to schools is that sharing is fine.

When the genitalia of two children sharing a room is not the same then it very much is or at least should be a concern to parents.

The last two trips away from home, we haven't known in advance of the sleeping arrangements probably due to what @WittiestUsernameEver has said.

Oh don't pretend Mtf trans status is not obvious to everyone - except in very, very rare cases.

Are you saying the school should have outed this child to you? The genitalia of another child is absolutely none of your concern. YABU.

the boys feelings are not more important that the girls safety. To think a boy…however he identifies, hasn’t got raging hormones and is therefore not a threat is ridiculous, and such a safety issue.
Op's daughter is also entitled to dignity and privacy away from males.
I’d be absolutely livid that they’d put my daughter in this position.

"trans girl is gay?"

So you mean a straight boy.

"trans girl is gay?"

So you mean a straight boy.

Quite. I suspect some of the people who think this kind of room-sharing is ok are assuming that boys identifying as girls are boys who are gay, and therefore it's 'safe' because they would not be sexually interested in the girls they are sharing a room with. I'm not sure why they assume this.

This a million times over.

Having lived through the teenage years with a trans (f2m) child - I can tell you this is an utter minefield.

sleepovers I had always been happy with mixed sex with close friends up until about 10 (very very close friends almost like cousins)

after 10 - female only sleeping in their room. (Same sex)

once my child came out as trans, gay, bi, pan (yes been through all of these) the ‘rules’ of common sense just blew my mind. As who was / wasn’t appropriate to be in a room together?

by then though - the self harm and mh issues and suicide ideation were as strong as all the trans / sexuality / gender identity stuff and the school refusal and hospital stays etc made sleepovers the last things on our minds.

I feel so much for these teens who are struggling with their identity but I also feel for the people around them who are expected to be both compassionate and fair to both them and their peers. It is an utterly impossible position to be in trying to support everyone’s ‘rights’ and I hate that it is so impossible to talk about these issues as the minute you bring up anything that doesn’t fit the militant trans agenda - you are accused of being a Terf etc.

as a mother of a trans child I tried so hard to allow my child to be who they want to be without letting them stamp on other people’s rights. I know as a women myself - I do not want to sleep in a dorm or change at a pool in a room where there is a person with a penis. That doesn’t make me a terf - it makes me a women who is being honest.

i feel so much of this has got so politicised and inclusion of trans has been allowed at the exclusion of sense and the exclusion of natel women’s rights.

I know many will hate me for taking this stand point.

I truly believe in this op situation that girls were put in an untenable position. If they had complained about having a trans girl in their room they would have been outed as being transphobic by their peers. It is not right they were put in this position when there was a simple solution - a separate room. It is not segregation - it is safety for all . The trans persons right to feel comfortable in their gender should not come at the expense of the comfort of natel females to share only with same sex.

I think this school have got it badly wrong and have failed all the kids here.

I would absolutely be going ballistic at the school here OP.

My children have friends identifying as trans. I am happy to be respectful, using preferred pronouns and names. I think trans rights are incredibly important but one vulnerable group's rights do not trump another vulnerable group's rights.

For teenagers I think this is even more important, because they are still developing their sense of self and identity, regardless of the absolute minefield of gender identity which seems under constant discussion. I will probably be flamed for this, but to me the number of teenagers identifying as trans and questioning their physical sex seems to be disproportionately high in this age group. I really worry about this for two reasons-1) Are vulnerable teenagers feeling pressurised into questioning their gender because of this and 2) There seems to be no way to safely encourage teenagers to critically examine their feelings over this, without being labelled transphobic.

I am not transphobic. There is no but there.

What the school has done here though is create at best an uncomfortable and at worst an unsafe situation for both the biological females and the trans student.

Teenagers are generally known for being embarassed undressing in front of others (PE flashbacks for me there, we had communal showers :/); this would be much worse I imagine if sharing a room with a trans person with the genitals of the opposite biological sex to yourself.

I imagine it would be equally mortifying for the trans person, as if you truly identify as female and know you have male genitalia, how would putting you in a situation making you visually confront the physical differences of the gender you identify as help you in any possible way?

I would be making both of these points to the school. In an attempt to be inclusive, they have put both children at risk physically and psychologically. A single room is realistically the only fair solution.

If we were talking about adults, and a fully transitioned trans woman I would feel very differently.

Very minor issue in the grand scheme of things

You think girls safety and dignity is a 'very minor issue'

What the hell is wrong with you 😵‍💫

Not that first deletion that i replied to, it just said ‘yes they do’ which was why i queried it

looking back i think they deleted that one accidentally because the next one which was deleted deffo said bullshit and was still standing (deleted now)

but it doesn’t matter as you are quite right about the rest of the deletions being down to troll hunting

@TheKeatingFive

Where is the evidence that there is any more risk to girls’ safety from this individual than any other girl?

@BedBugs5

Statistically, females are more at risk from males than females, regardless of how one identifies. Are you not aware of that?

I would kick up merry hell, OP. As in, lawsuit levels of merry hell. The school has failed massively on this. Your poor dd.

On what grounds should this boy be treated any differently to any other boy when it comes to risk assessment?

Boys can turn into girls. Humans can't change sex, no matter how much people stamp their feet and shout about it.

Dont you mean where is the evidence that there is any more risk to girls’ safety from boys as compared with from girls

@FlexIt

How many incidents have there been of trans girls harming cis girls on school trips?

There doesn't have to be any incidents of harm for girls to have the right not to share sleeping spaces with boys.

Well according to the teacher of 30 years on this thread, this incident could never happen. So presumably there is little evidence of harm because only a few schools are foolish enough to let the situation arise.

But this is what GC people are up against when pointing out harms of gender nonsense. One group will say they are being alarmist and no one would allow such dangerous situations, and another group say its completely fine and should be allowed to happen.

Not sure why 30 years of teaching experience are relevant when this is a recent phenomenon.

You escalate and escalate and escalate is how you deal with it.

@rosesrredviolets sadly lots of schools, and the NEU, are rejecting the draft guidance on gender questioning pupils so I think you’re right to think the school will too. It is only draft.

if you post on the Feminism Sex and Gender board - and explain you’re new to this so can other posters make no assumptions about what you do and don’t know - there are a few posters there who know their stuff and can advise.

also if you feel comfortable doing so, look up Sex Matters, Transgender Trend, Bayswater Support group and see what their advice is on residentials. And contact them directly.

Btw, I asked at information evening for Y8 residential if sleeping accommodation would be single sex and was told ‘absolutely’ by the teachers and lots of laughter from other parents. 🤷‍♀️

And I meant to add its frustrating that we rarely see these other two groups arguing with each other - the "It would never happens" and the "It's good that it happens" always both seem to take it out on the GCs for some reason.