To think that the mother/daughter duo who took Michaela to court should face some natural consequences?

[KTheGrey]

Apparently the mother involved wants to send her younger child to the school she finds so unsatisfactory in September. I don't think this is reasonable. I understand the logic of leaving a child at a school where they are established, but she should be expected to find a school she likes better for a younger sibling, surely.

She also intends to bring another suit, presumably tax payer funded again. I think that she should be expected to pay in full for any further suit she brings against the school. She could apply for costs if she wins.

@EarringsandLipstick the school is very clear about their secular policy. They asked all parents to sign up to the ethos before starting at the school.

The school ask everyone to compromise and even If they wanted to introduce a prayer room there were major practicalities such as availability of rooms for all the children and faiths. I am very glad the ruling allows the school to continue with their philosophy. The head is inspirational

It’s not a recent rule change, the school has always been secular. the recent change is students praying in the playground, against the ethos of the school, read this statement before judging.

The head is inspirational

I couldn't disagree more. For sure, there's a well-run, organised school community. And I formerly was impressed by her philosophy.

But ruling children in such constrained ways, no critical thinking skills fostered, does not prepare them for the teal world & is singularly joyless.

I can see why it's appealing, given the challenges facing the UK education system. I'm very glad we don't take similar approaches in Ireland.

There are many reasons why there is no (open) religious observance. The bullying aspect, mentioned above, for one. And this wasn't just among the children - it was adopted by parents who threatened staff and pupils of the school.

The separation of the children by religious faith, for another - Mrs Birbalsingh wants them to see each other as human beings and individuals - not as "Muslims", "Jews", Christians", "Hindus", "Buddhists", "Atheists" etc - that is where sectarianism starts, and it invariably leads to discrimination and intolerance.

Plus there is the practical aspect. If a prayer space is provided for one faith, then a similar space must be provided for each of the other faiths. Schools are absolutely strapped for space - there is no room.

A devout person of any faith is capable of praying silently, and alone. If they want to truly connect with their God, they will do so in the peace of their hearts and minds.

The ethos and rules of the school are made clear and pupils are expected to adhere to them. That is how the school gets such good results. That is why parents want their children to get a place there.

It just takes ONE child to disrupt an entire lesson - or indeed, an entire school.

Thanks

They are not banning difference. They are tolerant of people from all religions but have set up a school where no religion has any part in how it works. If that does not suit people then they should not choose the school- there are plenty of schools that allow religious practices on site.

. If a prayer space is provided for one faith, then a similar space must be provided for each of the other faiths

It wouldn't always be a physical space. We can refer to space meaning capacity to understand or compromise.

The way to deal with any challenge is to investigate what the core issues are & seek a mediated outcome.

That doesn't sanction bullying or aggression. Or mean creating an unworkable environment.

It's deeply sad that there's no openness to consider alternative perspectives

ALL UK schools should be secular.
There’s no need for any school (aside from teaching the basic religious Ed) to be involved in religions. I’m including ALL religions in this opinion.

There’s absolutely no reason why parents who wish to bring up their children within religion, cannot support that to take place at home or place of worship. Schools do not need to be places for worship.

For faiths who pray multiple times a day, parents are still allowed in the UK to remove their children from school over the lunch time break. Therefore prayers can take place, before school, lunch times, after school and evening.

This. The point was she wasn't exercising her religious freedom in isolation, she was intimidating other children. There have also been threats against teachers.

It is shocking to me that parents would agree to a particular school philosophy to get their child admitted, and then rescind that acceptance and try to bully the school into changing the policy.

Do you not like Muslims?

They should be footing the bill instead of wasting tax payers money.

The school is very clear about their secular policy. They asked all parents to sign up to the ethos before starting at the school

Interestingly, it mentions in the judgment that the claimant's mum never attended the school's open days or even the "welcome event" for new parents, and while she'd doubtless got other things to do it does make me wonder just how closely she read the policies before signing

The head has been given her discretion in law. Honestly she made it clear enough in her intentions; this foolish mother can appeal it and either it will be kicked out again or become a serious precedent. Either way it's a perverse result as the school is no more inclusive, it has legal backing not to be, and the children who are "bringing" this action will be further marginalised, not by the school but the adults who are so anxious to change the school.

I don't share the head's politics but you cannot fault her for clarity, and her justification is equally so. It is her school. Good. Other schools are available if you do not like her ethos.

It's only one school. It can't have to be the perfect school for everyone in the world.

I am pretty sure Birbalsingh has considered alternatives and this is what she picked. You don't have to buy in.

I wouldn’t send my dog to Michaela. It’s a dictatorship run by a bonkers despot.

It is shocking to me that parents would agree to a particular school philosophy to get their child admitted, and then rescind that acceptance and try to bully the school into changing the policy

I don't think this is 'shocking'. It's ok to challenge what you believe to be discriminatory at any point, regardless of prior decisions.

This particular case had a number of elements, including threatening and harassing behaviour to students and staff. That's not acceptable.

As a wider point, it's dismaying that some schools don't want to embrace, in a reasonable way, religious differences.

They may have to. Muslim faiths pray 5 timed a day, and some of those times are during the work / school day.

That's not to say that it should interfere with other activities like a work meeting or a class, but of course it should be possible to accommodate.

The utter lack of tolerance here is actually upsetting.

As I said upthread I’m Orthodox Jewish. My parents were brought up where there were no Jewish schools. My DGF had my DF attending religious instruction every night after school , Synagogue on Fri night/Sat and Cheder (Jewish Sunday school equivalent). He then said more prayers at home and before school. My DGPs were hardcore. You can only imagine the amount of prayers and rituals religious Jews are expected to adhere to. I absolutely do not want any of this in state schools. It has no place there imo. As it happens my parents rejected all religious belief and we were brought up with no religious instruction. Education is education. Religious education is religious education and shouldn’t be part of the state system. Ideally there’d be no religious schools private or otherwise. But if someone feels that strongly, they should send their children to a school that is set up to accommodate the prayers, practices, rituals etc.

It wouldn't always be a physical space. We can refer to space meaning capacity to understand or compromise.

The non-physical space is within the heart and mind of the faithful.

There is no room for compromise in this situation. Children were being bullied. Staff were being threatened. Property was being damaged. This is verging on terrorist* behaviour. It doesn't pay to "compromise" with bullying tactics.

*unlawfully using violence and intimidation to pursue one's aims

It's only one school. It can't have to be the perfect school for everyone in the world.

What does this mean?

Every school should aspire to work on the basis of compromise and mutual respect, notwithstanding the need for some non-negotiable rules.

It's not about being 'perfect'.

I might not quite use the same language but I'd tend to broadly agree, including the reference to despotism

I think it’s overall worse for society if religious people feel they need to be educated separately from the rest of the population.

You are going to get far more ‘extremism’ of any religion in those schools, and less exposure of, and tolerance to, the ways others live their lives.

Aspirational ideas are not law. Law is about drawing a line about what is permitted to happen and what does not.

That is your choice.

Other parents have chosen to send their children there precisely because of the discipline and work ethic that the school promotes.

You're missing my point.

A successful school considers respect & tolerance, and looks for ways to accommodate preferences where possible.

That's not to the exclusion of practical considerations. It's not to accommodate every variation of religious observance. But some can be considered.

Religion is not being brought in as part of the actual education, curriculum or school-based events.