To think that the mother/daughter duo who took Michaela to court should face some natural consequences?

[KTheGrey]

Apparently the mother involved wants to send her younger child to the school she finds so unsatisfactory in September. I don't think this is reasonable. I understand the logic of leaving a child at a school where they are established, but she should be expected to find a school she likes better for a younger sibling, surely.

She also intends to bring another suit, presumably tax payer funded again. I think that she should be expected to pay in full for any further suit she brings against the school. She could apply for costs if she wins.

I don’t think a school should be allowed to ban religious practice. I went to a C of E school but Muslim pupils were allowed to wear a headscarf, Hindu pupils wore religious symbols. I cannot imagine an employer getting away with this so I don’t see why a school should. I practice a different faith but I’d donate money for this mum to sue the school.

Ok.

I disagree. I think people should have freedom to practice their religion during school hours if it’s required eg praying.

Regarding food, do they refuse to accommodate pupils not eating pork?

I think it's OK to challenge the schools decision in court and also to send your younger child there if you're happy for them to do the "Qada prayers" later on, instead.

I would say to the family that, in my experience of schools, a firm head who runs the school their own way, is what leads to their successful results.

A wishy washy head who bends to parental pressure leads to a crap school.

I beg your pardon. You are quite right; March 2023. I was under the impression that they had no prayer room on purpose though? Along with doing revision on Sundays which annoys Christians and having eggs touch plates which is not allowed in Hinduism. And teaching Macbeth with witches which upsets thr Jehovah's Witnesses.

Didn’t the school introduce it because children of the same religion where also being bullied and forced into taking part as well as threats against pupils praying via public walking by.

These prayers can be caught up made up once home there is no need to be done in school when it’s clearly causing issues between pupils (the ones trying to force others to take part) and it putting them at risk as well from the public.

That's really interesting to me. I think we should embrace secularity, because we have to live together. And I would be astonished if all employers allow prayer breaks. Is this mandatory? I thought you could make up prayers after work if necessary?

I am not religious and would prefer for there to be a separation between church and state but I wouldn't extend that to personal prayer in lunch time.

I'm more blown away by them not being allowed to congregate in groups larger than 4. That must make a kick around pretty shit

I personally think it's ridiculous that youngsters can't pray if they want to at lunchtime in the playground. However this comes with the caveat that there must be zero pressure on Muslim students to join in if they don't want to (part of the schools case were Muslim students were being pressured to take part in praying). I'm Christian but respect the rights of others.

It's vegetarian - but eggs touch the plates and Hindu children are made aware of
this.

Again, I think you can make up prayers after school.

Was it even legal aid funded? Don't they have to feel you have over 50% of success before legal aid will fund?

I dunno, all those pesky people taking advantage of legal aid to mount perfectly valid legal challenges must be costing us taxpayers a fortune. Not.

YABU to want them to face consequences. Consequences for what exactly?

But they weren't asking for a prayer room, just to be allowed to pray in the playground during their lunch break.

They are not there for a kick around. They are supervised throughout the school day and this is a school of absolutes - absolute concentration on The Goal.

A lot of behaviour issues in other schools would be improved if not allowed to congregate in groups of more than 4

They weren't asking for prayer breaks. They wanted to pray in their break.

Actually I think the school should be proud of their pupil here. She had the strength of conviction to pursue her cause through a mature method, rather than just stamping her foot and going "its not fair".

I also think we should be like France and have no religion at all at school . The whole faith school Academy thing has done terrible damage to our state education system. As a lifelong Labour voter and teacher of 40 years I can see that Tony Blair has alot to answer for . I am glad that the schools principles have been upheld in court.

I am very pleased with the court’s ruling, it is the right one. I believe in a total separation between church and state. There should be no state funded religious schools at all.

I am also fine with the younger child attending the school, she shouldn’t be punished for the actions of the litigious mother (nobody believes this was all driven by the daughter)

They introduced the new policy in an "emergency" situation after intimidating behaviour.

Michaela School: Reversing prayer ban would expose school to risk, High Court hears www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68013174

"Mr Coppel said that during March 2023 "Muslim children were observed to be applying peer pressure to other Muslim children to act in certain ways".

One student who had never previously worn a headscarf was "pressured into wearing one", while a Muslim pupil dropped out of the school's choir as she was told it was "haram", or forbidden, the court heard."

It sounds like the rule was introduced to protect students from each other.

www.theguardian.com/education/2024/apr/16/london-school-katharine-birbalsingh-prayer-rituals-ban-not-unlawful-high-court

"Birbalsingh warned against a false narrative about Muslims being an oppressed minority at Michaela. “They are, in fact, the largest group. Those who are most at risk are other minorities and Muslim children who are less observant. If parents do not like what Michaela is, they do not need to send their children to us."

A lot of behaviour issues everywhere would be improved if no one ever was allowed to congregate in groups of more than 4 however it would just be completely fucking shit.

There are no sports facilities or playing fields, and barely a playground. Birbalsingh seems to think that sport is a bourgeois indulgence and the school appears to do only the bare minimum required PE. A lunchtime kick about, or pickup game of rounders is definitely not on the cards.

For those asking about the "other case being brought", the Headteacher's statement is below - the paywall can be ignored if you just scroll down to see the script in a smaller space

Frankly I'm surprised that she admitted the second child at all after this, but doubtless there'd have been yet another case brought if she'd refused

And I only wish we could get rid of all religious observance in schools and leave it as a private choice where it belongs

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-michaela-court-ruling-is-a-victory-for-all-schools/

No I think they were fine to challenge this as they were doing what they believe is right from the point of view of their religion.

But I also believe the court made the right decision.

I'm an atheist and am against faith schools. However, I do not see any reason why a student should not be allowed to pray during break or lunch time on school grounds, whether it is a secular school or not. As long as a student is in an area where they are allowed to be, during non-lesson time, why shouldn't they be allowed to engage in any activity they like which does no harm to others?

I teach in a secular, very culturally diverse girls' grammar school, which is very supportive of students' cultures, including their religion. We have a prayer and reflection room, which anyone can use, but which is mostly used by our Muslim girls during Ramadan.

If there was already a policy in place when this child joined the school, specifically stating that prayer was not allowed on school grounds, then the family are being unreasonable. If not, then they are justified. I am not a fan of the Michaela School's methods, or Birbalsingh's attitude.

Since they are unhappy with the school. I'm amazed they want to send the younger child there. As the head teacher said, by applying to the school, they signed up for the schools ethos. I remember my parents being told similar when they applied for my Catholic school.