To think that the mother/daughter duo who took Michaela to court should face some natural consequences?

[KTheGrey]

Apparently the mother involved wants to send her younger child to the school she finds so unsatisfactory in September. I don't think this is reasonable. I understand the logic of leaving a child at a school where they are established, but she should be expected to find a school she likes better for a younger sibling, surely.

She also intends to bring another suit, presumably tax payer funded again. I think that she should be expected to pay in full for any further suit she brings against the school. She could apply for costs if she wins.

I agree. However, many posters have stated that DC should get an education without religion anywhere near it. All I'm saying is that is not happening now. Schools must (in theory) provide daily collective worship and many parents have to put their DC in faith schools that spend a lot of time on religion. Every DC does not get the opportunity for a non- religious education in this country.

I agree. it is the same with teh grammar school issue - very unfair that whre I am from the NE we abolished them 1970 but other parts of teh Uk have them. Yet we are all one nation and pay taxes so surely state schools should offer the same either only comps o r else always have grammars or only secular schools with rules about collective worship removed or else every area allowed some religious state schools if they wish (obviously some areas may have no hindus so not surprising they don't have a hindu state school I suppose); but it certainly seems to be a bit different around the UK.

We have Grammar schools here and the effect is that they thrive (and the faith schools) while the Comprehensives are awful. Hence why I had to send my DD to a faith school as our local comp could not meet her needs.

I think the idea of schools having to provide collective worship comes from a time when the vast majority of the country were practising Christians or were expected to be Christian of some denomination. It is true Christian faith schools often have good reputations and possibly it is that they are in relatively affluent parts of towns of have historical records of success.

The question with collective worship then becomes collective worship for which religion and I think with the growth of Islam some schools will have to face this probkem. There is one Muslim girls who attends my daughter's C of E school but I believe she avoids Christian religious worship and possibly some aspects of PHSE.

There is a C of E school in the poorer part of our town which because of catchment has 40% Muslim attendance (maybe more now). This is the school which the community at large would want replaced with an Islamic faith school and there is a general community feeling it is incredibly discriminatory for Muslim parents to have to be 'forced' to send their children to a school which nominally supports another religion. The issue is brought up again and again in local elections.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/18/muslim-students-less-likely-to-be-awarded-top-class-degrees

There is also evidence being Muslim seems to result in poorer educational attainment at HE level. I do not for one minute believe Muslims are less intelligent than non Muslims or we have systematic religiously discriminatory marking schemes so what is the problem?

the problem in my opinion is that Muslims in specially women feel very uncomfortable socially in our secular university environments. Muslim women ideally would want to have single sex accommodation with fellow Muslims or at least students that share their lifestyle e.g. not drinking, partying, dating etc. It does not take a lot of thinking to see that this may be difficult in a lot of universities. I wonder if the sociall disconnect for Muslims results in an impediment to learning as there is a psychological impact from this feeling of potential alienation.

I was reading an article from a Muslim female student at Cambridge who said it was incredibly isolating and uncomfortable to be in a mixed sex college with a drinking culture including formal meals. It was a challenge to get halal food and the main worship building was Christian. There was also a feeling for Muslims that university is essentially a private education as they can't take out student loans due to interest.

overall Cambridge was not a pleasant experience and she found social solace during holidays moving back to her family and community. I wonder if this is the experience a lot of Muslims get at university and whether from more conservative families there may be pressure not to go?

That's interesting.

At my DD's RC high school there are many Muslim DC as I believe their parents like the school for being single sex and quite strict, along with excellent academic results.

The school has a policy of all DC taking part in the religious aspects of the school. Obviously non-RC DC don't take communion (they can choose to go up for a blessing if they wish) but they are expected to attend Mass. They don't have to say the prayers at the beginning of each class, but sit respectfully while they happen and everyone has to attend assembly even if they don't actually sing the hymns.

@WatermelonWaveclub

it may be that Muslim families that want the best for their children are making sacrifices to allow their children the best education possible. I actually think it is possibly the more broad minded Muslims that allow this. I wonder though if Muslims are using the RC ethos as a proxy for some of the Muslim ethos, making the best of it as they say?

@WatermelonWaveclub

I think single sex education in the state of non grammar sector is increasingly rare so maybe Muslims will take every opportunity possible to get a single sex education. I know the single or separate sex element of education is important to Muslims as they feel there is danger of distraction and inappropriate relationships. (Teens are teens).

Single sex education appears to advantage girls in terms of later success. Politically nobody wants to touch that one with a barge pole afaics.

@KTheGrey

I agree there are possible academic advantages for girls in single sex schools and I guess this is why successful schools in the grammar and private sector have held onto this status. I don't know if any future new single sex schools will be established though.

I do know that Muslims of my acquaintance sorely wish to have more single sex education more aligned to their values and do lobby for it at some levels. A pp made the point that Muslims were choosing RC single sex schools (quite rare?) for their children's education. I am not sure in reality if the parents are entirely happy with their Muslim children having to sit respectfully through Christian service though but maybe that is the choice they were faced with.

Going back to the original post if we view prayer times as a religious right can't that he expanded to single sex education. It seems to me if you make a precedent of accepting one religious right then you could argue you should respect them all???

It's quite amazing the number of Muslims joining the Labour party in wards where there is a high Muslim concentration who don't necessarily have hardened views on public services, taxation, transport etc. but really do have an interest in education and faith schools.

local Muslim leaders will offer a black vote for councillors if they are actively willing to aid the planning permission for faith schools. There isn't a majority to make change locally but that doesn't mean the Muslim community is happy with non faith or Christian schools.

It doesn't help school coherence when you have a group calling the ruling council party Islamaphobi c for ruling out such schools as I think it undermines the school in some ways as it is obvious parents would really prefer alternative teaching