For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

No the opposite.

You would be more accepted as would men who diverge from standard male presentation

Two sex classes, a full range of presentation

Exactly!

I think it gets into such dangerous territory for women attacking women.

I wouldn't give a rats ass if a woman challenged me, a woman, in a bathroom for looking masculine. I doubt that would happen though.

I would like to think - occasional idealist that I am - that TW or TM could have the empathy and understanding for those whose sex class stereotypes they wish to adopt to not colonise their sex-specific spaces. Particularly TW with regard to female spaces; TW are men, and men pose a statistically significant risk to women. In addition, a notable proportion of TW (potentially the majority, at least in the cohort aged 30+) are not suffering from gender dysphoria but are autogynophiles: men with a sexual kink for being seen as a woman. Men who get erections when they colonise women's spaces and call it "gender euphoria".

Dress how you want, call yourself whatever you want, take whatever hormones and have whatever body modification surgery (as an adult) you want. But when your kink, or your mental distress, leads to you to demand other people play along with your self-image in a way that denies their own reality, affects their rights or transgresses into their spaces...well that's where the line is drawn. You can believe whatever you want about yourself; you can't force other people to indulge you in that belief.

And for whoever it was who thinks this is a sign of feminism "regressing"...WTF is progressive about telling young boys they must be girls if they prefer to play with dolls and like the colour pink? Did the 1980s never happen? Children as young as 3 and 4 have been referred to the Tavistock clinic as being "gender dysphoric", put on a pathway that leads to puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgery, made lifelong patients and it is based entirely on stereotypes.

Also, a final note in case this is something people aren't aware of: when considering discrimination under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment within the Equality Act, the comparator for a transwoman is a man who has not undergone gender reassignment. Treating a transwoman like a man is not discrimination.

@SoundTheSirens

Exactly.

I didn't write the headline. You are free to take it up with the writer.

In your ideal world then would women who present like men be allowed in women's washrooms? And if so how do you differentiate between them and an actual man who enters?

Aren't you still relying on being able to " tell" who is a biological woman?

You wouldn't care if someone tried to kick you out of a bathroom?

I would! You're fine with that woman being harassed? Is it ok for her to be harassed because it's a woman harassing her?

Does that woman now have to use the mens washrooms because she is harassed in the woman's?

I find it illuminating that the underlying logic to questions like this always assumes that men must be using women's spaces. Because if men would just stay the fuck out, then ipso facto we'd know everyone accessing female spaces is a woman, regardless of how they present.

Once again, the onus is placed on women using their spaces to somehow solve the issues, rather than concentrating on getting men to change their behaviour and keep themselves and the other men they know OUT.

once again another huge trans derail…..

Are you on the right thread? The op covers the topic. If it’s not what you want to discuss there are others

Nope. The OP

‘I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is’

The concern is for women's rights.

*You wouldn't care if someone tried to kick you out of a bathroom?

I would! You're fine with that woman being harassed? Is it ok for her to be harassed because it's a woman harassing her?

Does that woman now have to use the mens washrooms because she is harassed in the woman's?*

I don't personally think that any woman would be harassed so much that they would then go and use the men's. I'm not reading the article from Pink News. Like the PP said, if a woman felt strongly enough to challenge a woman for thinking they are a man, then the problem lies with MEN.

If the social contract that currently exists with using sex segregated spaces like toilets wasn't being dismantled by people like yourself, this problem wouldn't exist.

You linked it so I’m letting you know.

Most people are law abiding and I don’t have much interest in how others present, or if people get pronouns wrong it doesn’t matter. I’m more interested in dignity, safety and privacy and fairness for women and that means single sex spaces.

Gender ideology is regressive in terms of stereotypes, especially when adults use it for children. It also is harmful

Gender dysphoria doesn’t need to be singled out as the one mh issue that requires societal restructuring

Also I agree with everything @SoundTheSirens posted

Bold fails as I'm using the shit app.

I'd actually probably think 'good on you for having the courage to stick up for sex based rights' if anyone challenged me for looking 'masculine' in a toilet.

Getting men to change their behaviour is not going to be achieved by:

1. shouting at other women on the Internet and calling them activists and abusers;
2. electing for your MP any right wing, traditionalist that's very invested in up holding gender norms
3. being ridiculously inflexible about TWAM so you sound hyperbolic.

The men disengage. This whole debate is an MRA wet dream. It's completely dominated feminism for about 10 years now, pitted women against each other and caused the men to be left to get on with it.

One of the things that's glaringly obvious to me from the Cass review is how little talk there is about her finding regarding the coercive, over sexualised, porn sick culture girls are growing up in. It's taken as read that young people are just going to have to survive, if they become distressed we will treat them for "mental illness". No discussion about fixing the patriarchal root cause of the distress.

Men don't have to be involved with this. GC people thinking they are "fighting the good fight" by demanding other women say and think exactly the same as them are achieving nothing at all.

Why do TW not accept, kindly like women do you know, that they are not welcome in some women’s spaces? They actively want to make women uncomfortable, they want to Be There For Themselves, with not a thought to anyone else.

Autogynephilia?

Labour enabling this with their dismissal of women in their own party.

Just an example. Misleading title, of course. TW behaved aggressively, shocker.

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/24160179.hampstead-ladies-swimming-pond-vote-keep-trans-women/

Gender ideology makes gender stereotyping worse not better

Worse still is some adults use this for children

A boy or girl is just that but better to be free do whatever

In that respect gender ideology is regressive, as well as harmful

if a woman felt strongly enough to challenge a woman for thinking they are a man, then the problem lies with MEN.

You may wish to reread and reflect on that. A woman incorrectly challenging another woman has bugger all to do with MEN and everything to do with obsessive prejudice.

No it isn't.. Womens rights =/= TWAM. The concern is with a very limited aspect of women's rights.

I'd prefer to focus on the right for women to get justice if they are raped, not to be forced to bring up their children in poverty, to have employment protections at work even if they are doing part time or zero hours contracts, to be able to be treated for health conditions, not to die unnecessarily in childbirth and to get support for birth injuries and trauma.

Of course it does. They wouldn't have to challenge anything if a) men weren't such a problematic sex class #notallmen 🙄 and b) people weren't seeking to dismantle the social contract that currently exists, like I said, of not allowing men into women's spaces, just because of an internal belief that no one has to buy into.

Men.

I'd prefer to focus on the right for women to get justice if they are raped, not to be forced to bring up their children in poverty, to have employment protections at work even if they are doing part time or zero hours contracts, to be able to be treated for health conditions, not to die unnecessarily in childbirth and to get support for birth injuries and trauma.

Women can care about and want those things, and the right to keep sex segregated spaces AND highlight the potential harm gender ideology brings to women, all at the same time. Crazy I know.

This thread’s jumped the shark now. Really, truly gone even more bonkers than they usually do.

Yes. Most GC posters don't though. They obsess about penises in a very pro-Patriarchy way. Its been a big change.