For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

I think we’ve made a mistake and should have used the last twenty years (since the GRA) to change society so each sex class accommodates the full range of presentation

Am I not womaning kindly enough for you?

😂
This is just laughable when people get called a man or a TRA if they don't toe the line when it comes to agreeing wholeheartedly on this issue

Exactly this.

I'm a child of the 80s, men wearing women's clothes or makeup because they like it is nothing new.

It doesn't make them women.

New GC appears to be increasingly Taliban-esque segregation of men and women, and veneration of women for being able to give birth and breastfeed

I had to read that twice to confirm you’d actually written what I thought you’d written.

‘New GC’ - define please what that means.

‘.. increasingly Taliban-esque segregation of men and women’ - Just. Wow. I suggest you talk to some women from Afghanistan (but only if they are not in Afghanistan), to discuss your comparison here. You may be enlightened. I wouldn’t want speak on their behalf.

I have!!! Absolutely.

I've had men threaten to rape me online to show me what " a real man" is.

I've lost family members because of my partner.

Of course people like that exist!

Oh that’s horrific. I’m sorry you’ve met such men. Male pattern violence never ends. I’m so sorry.

I think on this thread, and hopefully on MN, no such despicable people exist.

That is awful Josette, I'm sorry
I have heard lesbian friends of mine say they have had similar. It's disgusting and makes me very upset. Part of why I don't do twitter.

That's all awful but why doesn't it mean that women should remove our boundaries and withdraw safeguarding.

You know, because that there is plenty of evidence of it, that women and children have been harmed as a result of spaces becoming mixed sex.

Why do you think that women should take the burden of keeping you safe from other males by putting ourselves at risk of harm?

Edited to say I think you are talking about your partner rather than yourself and if your partner is a trans man then they are not a risk to women.

I studied feminism in the 90s it was at a good place. Sex class is fixed, the gender spectrum can be right across

We should have used the last twenty years for each sex class to include all

We are seeing the harms now from gender ideology, to children included.

You know the phrase "everything before the but is bullshit"?

Tone deaf. Have some empathy.

Tanswomen who pass or transmen who pass, where do they fit in? If you don't know they are trans are they forced to inform you?

And if they pass and are accepted does that become the standard? Because on the flip side I have mistakenly thought some women were trans who aren't and would have looked awful if I automatically referred to them as men.

*What do you think trans people existing looks like?

If we treat Transwomen exactly like men, and Transmen exactly like women... How is that any different from saying they don't exist?*

Presenting in a way that makes them feel like the opposite sex based on stereotypes, such as men wearing dresses, skirts, make up. Transmen remove their brests, cut their hair short, take testosterone. All that is fine if they so wish and shouldn't be treated adversely as a result. All power to them. They should be free of discrimination.

It doesn't mean they get to go into spaces of the opposite sex and noone else has to be compelled into believing someone else's pseudo version of reality, if they don't want to. It's not the same as saying 'oh you can't enter a shop because you are trans, or get on a bus etc' that is discrimination and saying they shouldn't exist.

There are clear distinctions.

Yes men are violent. Women are aware when asking for single sex spaces

Slight positive, crumbs and all that. Seems like the NHS have modified their gender woo language a bit. I received this letter from them today.

I have empathy for Josette.

I also have empathy for women and girls who have been harmed by males in female single sex spaces and those who have been excluded as a result of the presence of males. From earlier posts so does Josette.

No I don’t like your tone. I wouldn’t like it if you were a man either. I don’t care about kindness, I do care about courtesy and not hectoring people. I hope you’re not as much of a bully in the flesh as you are online.

I don’t think force or compelling should be there for anyone, eg compelled speech for pronouns that should go.

I mean it should be what we aim for. Those twenty years could have created a society where each sex class is able to cope with a greater range of presentation.

@lifeturnsonadime your tone is fine don’t worry about it

I remember when feminism was about equality and campaigning against men only spaces like private members clubs and golf clubs.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/31/cis-woman-harassed-transphobe-female-toilet-short-hair/

What happens when people decide who's trans and who isn't? Do women just start attacking eachother because of .1% of the population?

Yup. Weird, isn’t it?

It’s not up to you to decide a bully’s tone is fine @EasternStandard.

This is a pretty key question, isn't it? Women who don't present as 'feminine enough' are going to get harassed by other women. I am potentially one of those - tall, in my 50s, strong features and not pretty. Do I need to carry around proof of my XX status?

Thank you. 💝 Exactly.

There is absolutely violence, and of course Transwomen and Transmen and their partners are threatened.
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I'm sorry your friends have dealt with that as well. A lot of people wish death on gay people and trans people.

Oh please.

Being firm in support for the rights of women and girls doesn't make a woman a bully.

You may not like that I am calling people activists when they are literally engaging in activism for the rights of trans identifying males above the rights of women and children, but it doesn't mean I am wrong or a bully.

I understand it would be more convenient if every women would just agree that men are the more important sex and women's needs should continue to play second fiddle, but sorry, no.

The game is up. Women and children are being harmed and anyone who continues to downplay the issues or, worse, continues to try to tell women we shouldn't have boundaries is complicit in this harm.

I think you’re misunderstanding (plus I find ‘cis’ offensive)

In the society I am preferring sex class encompasses the entire range and we are more ok with that

A good example is how we talk to children. A child who is a boy who has long hair, does ballet or a girl who has short hair and plays football- the only message they should get is that it’s fine to do whatever as a boy or girl.

Gender ideology should not be part of what we use.

If we were more ok with a range of presentation a woman can freely look however they wish and access single sex spaces