For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

You don't get to tell people to "own" a world view that you are pushing onto them.

It is ridiculous to unilaterally make up your own definition of activist and then tell people to "own it".

You are not doing yourself or your cause any favours with this strategy.

oky doaky.

I find it interesting that even JKR said trans women are also at risk from men but no one ever wants to concede to that on MN.

Everyone is a risk from men. MEN.

Men, TW (also men) women, TM (also women) are at risk. They commit 98% of the sexual and violent crimes that occur.

I'm not sure why you're finding that so hard to understand.

What I never get an answer to is who these people who are hardline TWAM are voting for. There are not many options if you are a single issue voter.

Instead its always insulting Labour voters. As if 1) Labour presided over this shit show, not the tories and 2) we are all Owen Jones in disguise. It's boring deflection.

It must be so depressing and bleak going around with that mindset all day.

Well said

It must be so depressing and bleak going around with that mindset all day.

It's not a mindset, it's simple fact. Single sex spaces exist for a reason. It's wild that some people don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of basic safeguarding.

Old school feminists like me would say the answer is trying to deal with male violence and the systems that uphold it (aka the patriarchy). Focus on equality and the abolition of gender. Sex is about biology and doesn't limit people's opportunities.

New GC appears to be increasingly Taliban-esque segregation of men and women, and veneration of women for being able to give birth and breastfeed.

To me it's a regressive, Victorian ideology dressed up as feminism and makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I don’t think the post is the problem. The stat exists, safeguarding is desirable due to the facts.

New GC appears to be increasingly Taliban-esque segregation of men and women, and veneration of women for being able to give birth and breastfeed
To me it's a regressive, Victorian ideology dressed up as feminism and makes me deeply uncomfortable

Yes, you've voiced exactly my issue with this, I feel the same

@AdamRyan To me it's a regressive, Victorian ideology dressed up as feminism and makes me deeply uncomfortable.
**
So you don't think there should be single sex spaces at all then? And you'd disagree with the previous poster who said that TW are at risk from men in male spaces?

YABU

The Tories couldn't give a flying fuck about the safety of you, your daughters or any other woman. Vote who you like but don't delude yourself on the reason why.
I personally can't wait for the lot of them to fuck off, smug arrogant wankers.

I think this is nonsense tbh and a nice fresh line against women.

What do you think of Self ID and puberty blockers?

Would you have preferred both to happen / continue?

Abolish gender - absolutely. Abolish sex segregated spaces - once men (all men regardless of how they identify) stop being the more problematic sex as a collective class then some people might want to raise that discussion but it's a hard no from me in the meantime. I care about women and children's safety and dignity.

If a person is coming on to an internet forum with the purpose of telling a woman that she should accept the presence of some males in what should be single sex spaces, even after all of the evidence it harms women, then they are an activist for trans rights over women's rights to those spaces.

Saying oh but the law says, or 'it is just too difficult' or being concerned about the impact of asking males to stick to single sex spaces doesn't alter that.

I am sorry that the use of the term 'activist' bothers you. But that's not really my problem. If you can see all of the evidence and care more about trans women than the women who are harmed or displaced by their presence then you are advocation for them by telling women that we should lower our boundaries to accommodate them.

My views about single sex spaces are not extreme and align with the majority of women when asked questions about it in a meaningful way without the use of mangled language.

No one is arguing about "abolishing sex segregated spaces" though. Most parties have no position I.e. keep the status quo where trans people can use some of the facilities of the opposite sex.

Labour are specifically saying they will protect single sex spaces for biological women. But its not good enough for some voters. Which is fine, that's their democratic right. What isn't fine is calling the rest of us activists who harm women and children. I'm sick of it. It's extremely offensive.

I think this is nonsense tbh and a nice fresh line against women

Well clearly others don't think it's nonsense.
I agree with it which is why I quoted it.
I have seen a more slide to segregation on here lately, I clearly remember a post a while back where people were saying how lovely public transportation in some countries which were women only would be great here for example, and the whole adulation of our bodies and birthing etc, it does to me all seem regressive and going backwards.
"A nice fresh line against women" is just a cop out of just not wanting to listen to other women on the subject.

have you had any form of therapy?

@valensiwalensi yes at the time

New GC appears to be increasingly Taliban-esque segregation of men and women, and veneration of women for being able to give birth and breastfeed.

Good grief Adam and you are making out that I am the one with extreme views.

Segregation where it matters for the safety and dignity of women not just because, but you know that.

it is interesting that the unesco views on provision of single sex spaces in less privileged parts of the word are that women / girls need access to single sex toilets to access education etc.

Edited to add link

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/single-sex-toilets-unesco-un-international-womens-day-period-a8244776.html

Wanting exceptions for biological men to use women's spaces ultimately makes them mixed sex and thus making it harmful for women and children.

So if that's your position (I'm confused what your actual position is to be fair) then yes, you should own it, and yes, I'd put you as a TRA. Segregating sex is a safeguarding measure, not a big mean act.

I have to comment about this. I thought that that comment was awful.

@valensiwalensi was suggesting you should have therapy rather than the cross dressing male stay out of a single sex space.

Most reasonable people don't think like that.

I think single sex spaces are necessary in many instances where differences in biology are important.

I don't support sex segregation in any circumstance where some women want it to be away from men. Because then we would need to provide the same for men and we know men use those spaces to horde power and influence.

Also we have only just exited a period where it was considered unseemly for women to be in "men's spaces". Feminists had to fight hard to get rid of those sex based expectations. Why would we just trash all their hard work?

It’s not an attempt at a “gotcha”. It’s an attempt to understand your thought process around whether some categories of men might be welcome in female spaces and others not, and if so, what’s the difference? But it seems you can’t or won’t answer, presumably because you know there is no logic underpinning the invitation to ONLY those men presenting in stereotypically feminine ways into women’s spaces because of their so-called “vulnerability”, but not other categories of vulnerable men.

I do genuinely wish someone could provide a logical, coherent and unarguable answer to the question but no one ever can. It’s always deflection and avoidance of giving an answer, which in itself speaks volumes.

And yet no one seems to be harping on at men to stop being the cuntier sex class and call out the bad ones. Just on at women to roll over and be accommodating.