For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

I'm a woman and I don't give a shit if a trans woman wants to use the loo while I'm in there.

Speak for yourself, please.

And it's entirely possible to care about womens' rights and also not give one solitary shit about what trans people are doing with their lives.

As for caring enough to vote to keep women in poverty, that idea can get in the fucking bin.

So you put the wishes of males ahead of the needs of females.

You are an activist.

Own it.

I think that women deserve better. We deserve single sex spaces for dignity and safety and single sex sport.

Our daughters exist independent of the identities of males.

I'm gaslighting?🤯

You must be joking. You're the one making up stuff in your head and believing it, even going as far as telling me and everyone else on this thread that I wrote it and it's there for all to read. If only you would read my actual posts instead of arguing with what you imagined I said.

@lifeturnsonadime

I do think it's interesting that when it comes to trans women there is something to be said that the conversation is usually around women being flexible rather than teaching men to not be assholes.

Transwomen shouldn't feel threatened in male spaces. I would never want that to be the solution.

Maybe focusing on male acceptance might be worth considering, although a pipe dream perhaps.

I do think unisex bathrooms would work though. Based on the lineups for the women's I imagine quite a lot of women and trans people would opt for the unisex one. I would!

I've actually felt threatened in women's bathrooms by women so I don't ever feel particularly safe anyways.

It's an extremely tenuous definition of the word activist, but if you want to call me one, go ahead. You'll find this shocking, but being called something I don't agree with doesn't actually affect my life whatsoever.

Vote for poverty if it makes you happy. But I think it's genuinely disgusting that you would do that to women while claiming you're oh so superior. Yuck.

Josette this is a really great conversation and thank you for engaging.

I think Unisex bathrooms work for a lot of people but I strongly believe that for women for whom it doesn't work it really won't work. There are some women who will be on a urinary leash as a result of unisex bathrooms these could be women with religious beliefs that stop them from being in spaces where males might be or it might be women who have experienced trauma from males. So my solution to that would be unisex and single sex for those women. If that were to happen do you think that is workable?

I don't claim any form of superiority. I have a vested interest in the women who can't be in spaces with males for trauma reasons.

I am sorry you find that 'yuck'.

Thank you @GoodAfternoonGoodEveningAndGoodnight. I think it's clear who's doing the gaslighting on this thread.

I get what you are saying, and I don't think we differ that much.

I am of the firm opinion that our hard-fought-for-rights are sacrisant.

And I'm not about to give them up to a tiny minority.

I am sick of hearing about health providers mangling the language around women's health to include a ridicously small minority, who, let's be honest, if they are a trans-woman, KNOW they don't have a cervix, and if they are a trans-man KNOW that they do.

But in my heart I also know what an absolute heartbreak of a life it must be to be a "genuine" (and I use that term with lots of consideration) trans-woman.

Just in the day to day.

Where to you go to the toilet in a restaurant, bar, club, train station, workplace.

It must be fucking horrendous.

Voting for the continued destruction of the country by the Tories because of your views is crazily selfish. So bollocks do you care about traumatised women. These are the same women who are no longer entitled to legal aid, or able to get any help with their mental health, right?

As if they would do anything that's beneficial to women anyway! It's laughable. They're just trying to get easy votes from people who aren't bright enough to notice how much women have already been made to suffer.

Turkey. Christmas.

Yes on an individual level I agree.

But that shouldn't override women's rights.

A workable solution might be unisex spaces PLUS single sex spaces for women who need single sex spaces for safety and dignity (in that context I am thinking religious minority women who can't be in spaces with males or sexual abuse survivors).

Do you think that would work for your friends?

Outwith toilets I think the issues might be different.

100% That would be my solution as well!

Honestly I think those who don't care would use whatever was available and for those who do they can use the mens or women's.

I will say I appreciate you responding.

I have started to avoid these conversations because I've had people say I'm a closeted lesbian ( I'm not gay but I'm not straight), call my partner my girlfriend, insist they would know
" he's a woman " and it's put me off.

I've been told we are bad people for using male pronouns because we are forcing them to buy into his delusions.

It's been rough at times. To be honest we kinda just look like any other straight couple. Gorgeous obviously but like a man and a woman . ( I'm kidding, I hope my sarcasm translates)

I think while you and I disagree perhaps on the hierarchy of issues, it is nice to at least feel respected.

I do think when both sides feel heard and respected progress will be made.

I've never in my life voted Tory.

But rest assured that calling people idiots for their voting intentions and political beliefs is not the way to win over hearts and minds.

Didn't Brexit teach you anything?

Although I should add I don't think we are actually on different sides per se.

Good for you. I'm glad you are happy.

I am sorry you have suffered from abuse from people for your relationship choices.

People do need to to start hearing each other.

I wish you both well x

I don't think we are either. It's a shame this has been polarised in the way it has.

I am not anti trans I am pro womens rights.

A lot of people don't get the difference.

Thank you for understanding.

I completely get it.

I'd never dated a trans person before my partner and honestly if he wasn't so freaking hot I might not have. Lol

Our first date I was so smitten. He was hilarious and sweet. 30 years of socialization as a girl matters as well. I benefit a lot from that. He's an ideal partner.

Our second date I laid all my views out for him. All the things I know some people would find problematic. All the ways I could be considered transphobic and a terf.

I expected that to kinda of end it. I actually liked this guy so much and it was terrifying saying my views to someone trans.

He was fine with all of it. We agreed on most and the points we didn't, didn't matter.

The thing I struggle with the most now is I no longer feeling welcome to the conversation. My views have never changed. I don't like Transwomen competing against women in sports. I'll also respect anyone's pronouns no matter what.

Josette this must be hard.

I don’t want to ignore you. You are welcome to chat with me anytime xx

I know you posted ages ago, but I just wanted to observe that this is a daft Labour tactic to trivialise the crucial issues of children's safeguarding and women's rights as 'culture wars'. My Labour MP tried it on with me as per the Party HQ memo, along with the clichéd 'less heat more light' crap.

Call it 'the safeguarding wars' and see how that suddenly sounds in your head.

Having said that, my loathing of gender woo Tories like Penny Mordaunt, Caroline Nokes, Maria Miller, Crispin Blunt and Theresa May knows no bounds. Add in Justine Greening, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan. Bloody hell. What a Tory shit parade.

@Josette77

As long as some women are determined to fight this one and only issue politicians will continue to get away with destroying the country.

Sometimes I think this single issue conservative politicians are using across the globe - gender politics - is a massive smokescreen. While we bicker about it, they get on with dismantling other policies.

@lifeturnsonadime Thanks 🌷 xx

100%

Your last paragraph resonated with me.

Trans-women competing in female sports is just all wrong and unfair.

And like you I totally respect how anyone wants to dress or be referred to.

The whole debate seems to have been polarised as one or the other.

Either you're are for or against.

But that's not reality.

I'm all for folks who want to identify how they wish, but I am vehemently against gross unfairness.

Sadly a lot of totally nice and lovely trans-folk have been tarred with the same brush as those competing in female sports and that's unfair as well.

I agree completely. And unfortunately the more polarizing things become, the more extreme voices get louder and louder on both sides.

I suspect most of us would resonate as being in the middle, we don't sell papers though.

I don't think things are necessarily polarising in the UK where, after all, the Tories - the subject of this thread - are located. The vast majority of people here believe in biological reality and people's right to not be made to pretend they believe otherwise, as evidenced from polls written in plain, clear language about (basically) biological reality and its importance in various circumstances and in socio-political policies and analyses.

Recent court cases, notably employment tribunals, have reinforced these rather wonderful rights to freedom of thought and expression in England (the UK's most populous constituent country by far).

I personally believe that the 'both sides' rhetoric is disingenuous. But I daresay the misleading rhetoric of the BBC and the hybrid nouveau UK-US Guardian might give a different impression.