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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For voting Tory

1000 replies

Whatismypasswordthen · 16/04/2024 12:23

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

UK culture secretary urges ban on transgender athletes competing in female-only events

Lucy Frazer calls on sporting officials to draw up ‘unambiguous’ guidelines on gender identity

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 11:51

@Cazpar

Don't forget those who think women's place is in the home because we're naturally the carers:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/19/stay-at-home-motherhood-being-undermined-says-senior-tory-mpp*

From what I've gleaned, the majority of feminists on MN appear to on the Conservative side, so this shouldn't surprise them.

Crikeyalmighty · 17/04/2024 11:53

@AdamRyan there's an awful lot of people with crystal balls here on what Labour will/will not do. - As the Tory's have done next to nothing I dont get that they are a better option.

Starmer is a very senior lawyer, he is factually correct when he states that 0.1% etc are 'women ' with a penis- he knows full well the score. A Tory saying they 'know what a woman is ' hasn't altered the fact they have not helped the vast majority of women's lives one bit- apart from maybe the very well off.

It must be nice to have the luxury of voting on a single issue without much of a concern for all the other issues that so badly need looking at- same goes for anyone obsessing about VAT on school fees. If it's that tight I'm not sure private school is really in your budget. They are not in the main acting as charities and shouldn't be VAT free in my view.

There is a presumption that anyone not voting Tory is a massive 'lefty' . I for example vote Lib Dem- because I have a good Lib Dem MP in a city that tends to be Lib Dem. However I'm all for taking the best from all of the political spectrum - and I have a few views too that aren't woke .

I personally take the French angle and would ban sharia law and other aspects of life that feel backwards for women. If you don't like that then bugger off somewhere else that practices it. If I go and live in Saudi I have to accept what is their 'norm' and rules.

I don't agree with consistent child maintenance not being counted towards 'income in' - I have someone I know getting full UC , rent paid on HA flat (nice new one) and yet getting almost £800 a month in maintenance and doing very very little work when she is 100% able and has two late primary children. . She is actually better off financially than many many full time working single mums and I don't think that's particularly fair on those working and contributing, not just taking.

I am not pro mass migration from outside the EU . At least with the EU it worked both ways - how many of us want to go and live in Pakistan or Phillipines etc - not many. If we do have more non EU migration then I don't agree with it being whole families unless it's for specialist in demand skills like medics, scientists etc. I think in the long run though it would be better to initiate a Norway type arrangement if rejoining us off the table. Problem is I think they would be reluctant to do so now because it has got so shit there would possibly be a brain drain out the UK!

I am not anti private care being used as an add on to the NHS , so long as it remains free at point of use for

Lion400 · 17/04/2024 11:53

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 11:48

A GRC (which the majority of transwomen don't have) means hee haw. The problem isn't trans people, it's men in women's spaces regardless of how one identifies, and the dismantling of basic safeguarding that self ID brings.

I'm sure many trans people do just want to live their lives as quietly and authentically as possible, and they should, unfortunately that doesn't mean men get to go into women's spaces and sports. Once men as a collective stop committing 98% of sexual and violent assaults then that could be revisited.

The Tories however aren't the ones to champion this or women in general, but neither is 'some women have penises' Starmer. It's a bad time for women all round.

Yes. In a nutshell.

The issue with Labour is that we, well certainly I, expected more. This hocus pocus gender ideology some women have penises and we will even punish women in our own party who disagree nonsense, is shocking.

We expected Labour to protect and improve women’s rights, not erode them. Fck Labour.

EasternStandard · 17/04/2024 11:54

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 11:51

@Cazpar

Don't forget those who think women's place is in the home because we're naturally the carers:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/19/stay-at-home-motherhood-being-undermined-says-senior-tory-mpp*

From what I've gleaned, the majority of feminists on MN appear to on the Conservative side, so this shouldn't surprise them.

Really? How do you ascertain that?

There are plenty of articulate feminists on mn who have good careers, some may choose to stay home but surely you can’t miss posters with a wide range of backgrounds and expertise

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 11:55

Lion400 · 17/04/2024 11:32

@AdamRyan
So one can afford to send ones daughters to nursery because kind lovely peoples party Labour have made childcare more affordable. And then the daughters age 9 go into a toilet at the leisure centre / restaurant whatever, and get raped by a man in a dress? Then that man (if convicted, in a court that addresses him as Mrs Smith)goes into a women’s prison. Where he rapes his female cell mate. Meanwhile the daughters go to a rape counselling service where there are men in dresses in their support group. So they can’t go there because it’s too traumatic. But they can’t say why. So no support for them.

This is just one example. But at least they got to go to nursery for longer hey.

Edited

Well, under the Conservatives more than 98.6% of women who are raped see no justice at all, regardless of the clothes or venue of the rape.

Under the Conservatives traumatised women can't reliably get mental health support. Regardless of who raped them.

Under the Conservatives rapist "men in dresses" have been jailed as women, named as women in the press etc.

You are being ridiculous to try to make this a labour problem. And I'm not engaging any more with your ridiculous hyperbole.

Lion400 · 17/04/2024 11:59

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 11:55

Well, under the Conservatives more than 98.6% of women who are raped see no justice at all, regardless of the clothes or venue of the rape.

Under the Conservatives traumatised women can't reliably get mental health support. Regardless of who raped them.

Under the Conservatives rapist "men in dresses" have been jailed as women, named as women in the press etc.

You are being ridiculous to try to make this a labour problem. And I'm not engaging any more with your ridiculous hyperbole.

Sigh. I (and many others) expected more from Labour, therein lies their problem. Said it, expanded on it, emphasised it many times. But as always, willingly misunderstood / ignored.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:02

LilacFatball · 17/04/2024 11:39

Those things do protect women and children. For example, If you really want women to be safe from assault in prison, voting Tory won't achieve that aim.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-women-violence-self-harm-b2484746.html

How do you know which human's it helps?

Women is meaningless if men can be women because they say so?

Women are protected from rape by keeping trans identifying men out of women's prisons.

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 12:02

@EasternStandard

Read again, EasternStandard. The PP quoted "Don't forget those who think women's place is in the home because we're naturally the carers," and I said "From what I've gleaned, the majority of feminists on MN appear to on the Conservative side, so this shouldn't surprise them".

This is implying that as the readership of the FWR board is primarily Conservative, conservative views like the above shouldn't surprise them.

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 12:02

EasternStandard · 17/04/2024 11:54

Really? How do you ascertain that?

There are plenty of articulate feminists on mn who have good careers, some may choose to stay home but surely you can’t miss posters with a wide range of backgrounds and expertise

I expect she just reads the posts 😂
It's pretty glaringly obvious there are posters on there who really lionise mothering.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:04

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 11:51

Have you noticed this is in fact a thread about voting Tory? Other parties are available. In fact if accurate definition of woman in law and public life is your number one voting issue, you'd be better with reform than Tories 😂

I wish the Labour Party could be available to me, at the moment they are not because of the nonsense over some men being women.

Starmer is a lawyer he knows women can be protected from males in our spaces etc.

Question is why won't he?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 12:04

'The majority of feminists on MN appear to be on the Conservative side' is eh, quite the statement 😂.

EasternStandard · 17/04/2024 12:05

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 12:02

I expect she just reads the posts 😂
It's pretty glaringly obvious there are posters on there who really lionise mothering.

You think all feminists on mn feel like that?

No one has a career? You must be selectively reading

I see loads informed posters. Thankfully. It’s why I choose mn

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/04/2024 12:06

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:02

How do you know which human's it helps?

Women is meaningless if men can be women because they say so?

Women are protected from rape by keeping trans identifying men out of women's prisons.

Yet, under the Tories multiple women were sexually assaulted in prison by male sex offenders. Even now they still refuse to ban males from the women's estate.😒

EasternStandard · 17/04/2024 12:06

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 12:02

@EasternStandard

Read again, EasternStandard. The PP quoted "Don't forget those who think women's place is in the home because we're naturally the carers," and I said "From what I've gleaned, the majority of feminists on MN appear to on the Conservative side, so this shouldn't surprise them".

This is implying that as the readership of the FWR board is primarily Conservative, conservative views like the above shouldn't surprise them.

No I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing a fairly high degree of education and a range of careers

But I do choose to post on FWR for that range

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:06

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 12:04

'The majority of feminists on MN appear to be on the Conservative side' is eh, quite the statement 😂.

I mean could it actually be that some of the traditional labour voting feminists feel let down by Labour?

I wonder whether it could have something to do with the fact that Labour went as far as expelling women over stating concerns for women's rights and child safety?

Piggywaspushed · 17/04/2024 12:06

Tbh crikey, I don't conflate Labour with 'woke'. I don't think the current Labour party is very woke really (woker than the tories but it is all relative) . I'd hazard a guess that the wokest party , if woke was the only thing one voted on would be the Green Party. Lots of Labour supporters are far removed from woke (not sure working class Liverpool or red Clydeside considers woke politics a huge amount). I haven't looked at LD policies for a while but I thought they attracted quite a middle class,pretty tolerant (woke if you will) voter.

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 12:07

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 12:04

'The majority of feminists on MN appear to be on the Conservative side' is eh, quite the statement 😂.

Yep. I stand by it, too.

Piggywaspushed · 17/04/2024 12:08

Labour voting feminist reporting for duty.

There are versions of feminism.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:08

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/04/2024 12:06

Yet, under the Tories multiple women were sexually assaulted in prison by male sex offenders. Even now they still refuse to ban males from the women's estate.😒

I know.

So what is Labour going to do to stop that?

Nandy is back bench for now but she has some pretty extreme views on which men should continue to be in the women's estate which I don't think have been retracted.

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 12:09

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:04

I wish the Labour Party could be available to me, at the moment they are not because of the nonsense over some men being women.

Starmer is a lawyer he knows women can be protected from males in our spaces etc.

Question is why won't he?

I wish the Conservatives were more centrist and we weren't at risk of being run by a far right gang of "swivel eyed loons" intent on further destroying the country after the past 14 years. But noone gets what they want.

EasternStandard · 17/04/2024 12:09

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 12:07

Yep. I stand by it, too.

I get the pp is always telling people how FWR is getting it wrong but I really don’t see it

Do you go on that board much?

NefertitiV · 17/04/2024 12:09

@EasternStandard

No I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing a fairly high degree of education and a range of careers

I'm not talking about education or careers specifically.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 12:10

*I mean could it actually be that some of the traditional labour voting feminists feel let down by Labour?

I wonder whether it could have something to do with the fact that Labour went as far as expelling women over stating concerns for women's rights and child safety?*

That's my experience. I'm a feminist, would never vote Tory, voted Labour last time but I'm now politically homeless. Haven't encountered any 'feminist' on MN who I've thought - 'yep, definitely a Conservative' when discussing women's rights.

Plus I live in Scotland so we're currently fucked anyway. What a time to be alive.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:10

AdamRyan · 17/04/2024 12:09

I wish the Conservatives were more centrist and we weren't at risk of being run by a far right gang of "swivel eyed loons" intent on further destroying the country after the past 14 years. But noone gets what they want.

Women's rights ADAM.

Women's rights and child safety should not be too much to ask of the democratic Labour Party.

They expelled women who raised concerns.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/04/2024 12:10

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 17/04/2024 12:10

*I mean could it actually be that some of the traditional labour voting feminists feel let down by Labour?

I wonder whether it could have something to do with the fact that Labour went as far as expelling women over stating concerns for women's rights and child safety?*

That's my experience. I'm a feminist, would never vote Tory, voted Labour last time but I'm now politically homeless. Haven't encountered any 'feminist' on MN who I've thought - 'yep, definitely a Conservative' when discussing women's rights.

Plus I live in Scotland so we're currently fucked anyway. What a time to be alive.

People don't believe me when I say this but I have never voted Conservative.

I just want more from Labour.

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