For voting Tory

[Whatismypasswordthen]

I know what the Tories are and no, I don't like it. But I'm a woman, I have daughters and I come from generations of women who've been abused and dismissed because of their sex. I want better for my girls but I can't do it on my own. I need a government who will (at least give lip service to) supporting me. Am I a Tory? no. But the last thing women need is to be fighting their own government for basic recognition, so Tory it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/16/uk-culture-secretary-urges-ban-on-transgender-athletes-competing-in-female-only-events

@Whatismypasswordthen
I won’t be voting tory for many reasons.

1. They have wrecked the country, made us an international joke and harmed us all.
2. They have no integrity and will say anything to get a few votes.
3. Voting tory purely because of this issue (which I agree is important) is effectively letting men in frocks determine the outcome of a general election which is ridiculous because of point 1.

Well done, Tories. Absolute blinder. Women will actually vote for the party that demonstrably makes their lives harder because of this twatty "bUt wHAT iS a WoMaN?!" nonsense. I don't give a shit if a leaflet refers to me as a woman or as a person. I don't really give much of a shit about elite sports either. I DO give a shit about whether there's an ambulance available if I need to dial 999. I give a shit about whether there's a functioning nursery available so I can work and pay my skyrocketing mortgage. I give a shit about whether the planet is burned but unfettered market forces that must never be curtailed.

But you go right ahead and set fire to the little we have left because they'll be mean to 0.1% of the population and tell you they're doing it as a favour to you.

I have concluded you will never win on this on this site. My own personal view is that women's rights are very important , but not to the detriment of everything else going on and I'm concerned at the moment about 'peoples' rights. If the Tory's had been amazing on this then I can see why the single issue voters might feel as they do but they haven't been so. Do I agree with forcing people in companies to use this him/her pronoun shit- do I heck. However if that gets me a gvt that appear to not be prepared to function like the Wild West, don't think it's ok for MPs to bugger off for 5 weeks getting paid talking gigs, and generally appear to be doing positive things, then I will live with it. My own view is I would prefer a change of government and then pressure from within. Not everyone who supports a change away from the Tory's is a rainbow painting, let everyone in, trans rights obsessive, with no grip on reality but that's what the Tory's need everyone to think to even stand a chance-

Yes I recognise most of the so called 'tory apologists' most are regulars on FWR and have genuine concerns over what has been happening to women and children and have very valid concerns about what Labour's approach might be.

I also recognise a few TRAs on here doing Labour's bidding, I tend to think of them as men's right's activism apologists, given the amount of harm already done.

God I wish Labour would do better than this. Women do not have a penis. There is no such thing as a trans child and schools shouldn't be teaching gender. That's all Labour have to do. Given the known harms it's really not that difficult from the Cass report and men in women's sports / etc it's really not that difficult to do.

And before anyone pipes up, I have a child who was gender non conforming pre-puberty. She's autistic which is fairly common in gender non conforming girls. She grew out of it just like many children do as noted by Cass. Money would be far better spent on autism and trauma and mental health services than gender services. I am hoping that Streeting can now be trusted on this, but he has reverse ferreted post Cass. Children deserve better.

TBF to the OP of the last thread on this, she did change her mind after reading the posts. So I'm sure other believers of the lie "at least the Tories know what a woman is" change their minds too.

I don't think these threads are as helpful to the Tories as they think they are so don't lose faith @Crikeyalmighty.

I was wondering if the pp had a specific poster in mind who had gone ‘awol’

Mind you n/c isn’t an issue, not that it does much but can be a way to distance from it getting too personal

And actually I love the fact that Starmer and Reeves actually piss off those who are stuck in the 'lack of reality' way of thinking. Both seem logical and capable and if elected no doubt will annoy both left and right but suit a centreist like me who would rather they looked at the big stuff and spent less time on LGBT stuff- . I have several gay male friends and 1 trans friend who think the same . My trans friend (biological male) is more than happy to use blokes facilities but you need to be aware they can and do get 'a lot of flack/abuse' - I do think more unisex facilities would help somewhat and are also good where a dad is out on his own with a young daughter -

A lot of what you say here makes sense, of course it does. The thing I can’t accept is getting a party in power and hoping they’ll change things for the better, whilst they’ve openly stated some women have penises, And have been overtly hostile to women in their own party who disagree with that.

I’ve lived in a country where women have fewer rights than men. It is the dark ages, this country had moved on from that. And that’s where Starmer is promising to take women back to. People can think that this is ‘hysterical’ (let’s not go into the etymology of that word), but I don’t care. It’s true.

After all of these threads, you and I have been on several of them, I am surprised you are not aware that most of us know that every party knows what a woman is, truth be told. The fact that women are facing these problems; (males in sport/ single sex wards/ rape crisis/ prisons ) is precisely because those in power (and those who want to be in power) know who the women are.

If 0.1 percent of women were demanding access to men's rights do you think that they would have made the head way that trans women have? Answer, they wouldn't. This is because politician's know who the men and the women are.

It is a disappointment that after seeing the harms done Starmer still maintains that 0.1 % of women have a penis.

This might be legally true (as a result of bad laws introduced last time Labour were in power) but laws can be changed and women can be protected.

if only a political party wanted to protect women eh?

Blimey if they are talking about me am I not allowed a holiday! 😂

I just despair, quite honestly, how women don't back women and are now using 'not Tory' as an excuse for an awful situation whereby women are waving goodbye to our rights.

I'm not asking anyone to vote Tory. I just want people to realise that we don't have to be collateral damage.

Hope you had a nice holiday, I did 😀

My first post on this thread was people should vote as they wish. I think it’s important too

I do think there should be a range of views on these threads and they won’t all be pro Labour

Yes a range of views are important.

I just object to the ones that frame this as 'trans issues' or only concerning a 'tiny minority'.

It is about women's rights and safeguarding children. Men are not a minority group.

Edited to add - glad you enjoyed your holiday. I went walking for a week was fantastic!

I just object to the ones that frame this as 'trans issues' or only concerning a 'tiny minority'.

It is about women's rights and safeguarding children

Oh yeh I agree with that.

If 0.1 percent of women were demanding access to men's rights do you think that they would have made the head way that trans women have?

They have and are. They’re called trans men and they fly completely under the radar because men don’t care.

One thing we do know is the Tories don't give a shit about safeguarding women and children, their record in government proves it @lifeturnsonadime. That's why they are hemorrhaging votes left to Labour, right to Reform UK and centre to the Lib Dems.

Roll on the elections.

I think the Cass review is very positive

I see it has been picked up in a couple of EU countries already

I’m not sure anywhere else has similar

Oh please! Primogeniture was specifically excluded by Labour's Gender Recognition Act.

This means that if the eldest female sibling becomes a man she still does not inherit above her brother.

Trans women don't lose inheritance rights when they become women.

Funny that.

Trans men are less likely to physically harm men in their single sex spaces because they do not display male pattern violence and they are more likely to be harmed in those spaces than be the perpetrators of harm.

So women's rights are a price YOU are prepared to pay.

Cool.

But don't castigate other women for having valid concerns.

I think that some nordic countries were ahead on this but I'm not 100%.

Totally agree it is positive.

I genuinely feel for children still caught up in this though. They've been lied to by adults they ought to have been able to trust.

So women's rights are a price YOU are prepared to pay.

Given the rights lost under a Tory Brexit, then yes, it seems Tories are quite prepared to pay that price.

I am certainly not prepared to ignore women's rights, which is why I will never vote Tory. The Tories are a disaster for women and children, unless they are wealthy. They are also a disaster for people with disabilities, the poor and anyone who likes a functioning infrastructure and public services.

What's Brexit got to do with women's rights?

There was cross party support for Brexit and, as far as I know, Labour are not proposing re-entry to the EU?

The only similarity I see is that it is a polarising issue.

Brexiteers were told they were stupid and were like 'turkey's voting for Christmas'.

I see the same with anyone saying anything negative about the Labour Party. The same levels of 'righteousness' etc....

Personally I'd like to see a complete overhaul of our political systems, neither of the two main political parties really pass the muster as far as I am concerned.

Yes I can see that but will you accept a Labour Party that says that 0.1 % of women can have a penis?

Don't you think that accepting men in the category of women is problematic for identifying which humans should have 'women's rights'?

Don't be ridiculous.

TRA = trans rights activists = people actively campaigning to advance the rights of trans people.

That is not the same as "people posting in support of trans people", "people who won't vote Conservative" or even "people who don't agree with me that TWAM in all circumstances".

There is noone on here taking a TRA position, you are just trying to shut down an opposing view re: the Conservatives.

What's Brexit got to do with women's rights?

It is - literally - explained previously. I was merely adding a tick to the subject.