Page 4 | Would you make a complaint about these paramedics?

WatermelonWaveclub · 2024-04-16T09:30:52+00:00

I went to my GP the other day as I kept fainting when coughing. The GP said my HR was sky high. Then I coughed and fainted in front of the GP. Afterwards I couldn't move my legs properly. She phoned the hospital who said I need an ambulance. The GP got someone to get me in a wheelchair and take me to the nurse's room where I was put on a bed in a cubicle. Anyway a few minutes later the ambulance crew turn up (3 of them). They did an ECG - ok but tachycardic. I said my legs were feeling ok by then. They did a lying and standing BP and checked I could feel both sides of my face, could hold both arms up, checked pupils etc. So they say they need to take me to hospital. They start heading off and so I follow them on foot. They're all walking ahead of me, chatting away, not one seeing if I'm ok. So consequently we get into the car park - I have a coughing fit and next thing I know I'm waking up on the car park floor. I can't stop thinking about it. Were they at fault? Should they have used a wheelchair or at least someone walked with me? At the hospital they wouldn't even let me go to my scans etc in a wheelchair, I had to be taken in my bed. So if GP and nurse wouldn't let me walk was it right that the paramedics did?

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:02

JuvenileBigfoot · 16/04/2024 12:35

I'm a paramedic.

It's really difficult to properly comment as I wasn't there, but it does sound like one possibility is they were planning to get the chair but when you started following they just went with it.

However, Normal procedure would be for one person to wait with the pateint while that was happening though- possibly they didn't because GP practice staff were there. Also, I always use the patients/GPs/care homes own wheelchair if available (the one on the ambulance isn't technically a wheelchair), which it was so I'd have thought if a chair was the plan they'd have done that.

Other possibly is they deemed you able to walk (the obs you've described don't necessarily scream "no walking" to me and I have no additional information- your age, ability, history etc so I'm only going off that). My trust has a no lift policy, where if a patient can walk, they should. However, we wouldn't walk off with the patient behind us. Depending on the situation you'd have someone either beside or behind you. In your case from what you've said I'd be holding your arm.

Saying that, I know almost no one who acts with any kind of malice at work. It would be even more unusual to find 3 whole people who are just being unkind, so I think there's likely to be a reason behind their carelessness.

Hope this helps, happy to answer any questions.

Oh and most importantly, I hope you're feeling better ❤

Edited

I absolutely don't think there was any malice. And while my Obs didn't scream not to walk, the fact I was likely to faint on the way to the ambulance did. All other HCPs wouldn't let me walk, not even a wheelchair in hospital so it seems strange their decision was so different. And that out of the 3 noone could have walked with me.

I got the impression they were quite dismissive. On the way to the hospital they chatted about not having a clue about the illness I had and they didn't think adults could get it. Then it was all about someone doing something that wasn't within their remit. Strange the things you remember. I felt completely ignored in all honesty.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:05

Itsaloadofbollocksbut · 16/04/2024 12:38

Not all ambulance workers are paramedics. Most are ambulance crew which is a far lower level of training. Just FYI.

they may not even be being paid (SJA volunteers).

Edited

From what I recall from their chat, one was a paramedic, one a tech ? and one an assistant? May have that wrong.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:09

Itsaloadofbollocksbut · 16/04/2024 12:44

No. But not everyone is a paramedic. They’re registered professionals but not everyone on an ambulance is, a
so there are different codes of conduct.

Not saying this was good care but the OP may have made several assumptions.

Show quote history

I mean honestly my only assumption was you don't let a patient liable to faint walk to an ambulance unaided/unsupervised. I would think even the lowest level worker should be made aware of that. I said paramedics in the OP just as the common word people use.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:11

WillimNot · 16/04/2024 12:47

We are going to enter "dare not question NHS workers" territory @WatermelonWaveclub

However, yes, they were clearly negligent here.

They had been told you were fainting, that you had experienced numbness on regaining consciousness, you were tachy. Yes, you should have been watched, they aren't there to chat they're there to provide care and in this case fell short.

I would report it. You could've injured yourself falling on concrete, you're lucky not to have sustained a head injury or broken bone. I would wonder how long it took them to notice you had lost consciousness again, so would ask to see CCTV from the car park.

Based on others seeing me faint I only lose consciousness for a few seconds. When I came to the crew were still unaware I'd fallen but as I say it would have only been a few seconds.

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Itsaloadofbollocksbut · 16/04/2024 13:12

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:09

I mean honestly my only assumption was you don't let a patient liable to faint walk to an ambulance unaided/unsupervised. I would think even the lowest level worker should be made aware of that. I said paramedics in the OP just as the common word people use.

Show quote history

Which is exactly the point I was making.

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:14

Wavywoo · 16/04/2024 12:49

I think I would conplain in the spirit of constructive criticism. I expect their Trust would want to ensure training for similar circumstances is up to date, as this is exactly the sort of situation that does lead to them being sued.

You fell and bumped your head whilst under their care, that is not optimum care and should be addressed, as the outcome could gave been much worse, both from the perspective of your health, and from the perspective of their legal liability.

I hope you're feeling better, sounds like you've been really poorly.

Yes, that is exactly in the spirit I meant - constructive criticism.

Thank you, yes has been awful. But on the mend now. This happened a week ago and I'm now back home recovering.

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easylikeasundaymorn · 16/04/2024 13:15

DragonGypsyDoris · 16/04/2024 12:52

What would a complaint achieve? It wouldn't guarantee better future care for other patients, because every case is treated on what they see at the time. You can't blame them for what happened.

Well if the investigating officer found one of them should have stayed with or walked alongside OP then they will likely both remind those particular staff members and also bring it up as refresher training for others so of course it will help future patients!

If you followed your rationale nobody would ever learn everything "Oh oops we chopped off the left leg on that patient when it should have been the right, no point implementing a general policy that from now on we draw an arrow on the relevant leg and double check with the patient before we put them under, because every case is different and next time it might be the left leg we are supposed to amputate!"

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:17

easylikeasundaymorn · 16/04/2024 12:50

I used to work in health complaints and would raise it. Everyone acts as if complaint = expectation of public flogging and abject apologies but they are often welcomed as one of the best ways of learning. Nobody learns from things that went perfectly!

It doesn't have to be aggressive or accusative, just send an email setting out the facts, say you're not making any sort of liability claim just wanted to highlight it to consider if anything should have been done differently to learn for next time. If they did anything particularly good you could highlight that at the same time.

Tbh I'm impressed you got an ambulance within a few minutes!

Yes, they came very quickly.

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mynewname25 · 16/04/2024 13:18

FriedGold · 16/04/2024 11:46

having you faint behind them would hopefully be enough of an “oh shit” moment to prompt them to think/act differently next time. I just think a formal complaint is a bit harsh here.

This

YellowDaffodilRedTulip · 16/04/2024 13:18

Emergency workers aren’t saints. They were in the wrong here.
You would be in your right to say something, not necessarily to try and get them in trouble, or compensation etc but going to a patient who has just fainted, they should be super aware that she is at risk of fainting again!

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:19

DragonGypsyDoris · 16/04/2024 12:52

What would a complaint achieve? It wouldn't guarantee better future care for other patients, because every case is treated on what they see at the time. You can't blame them for what happened.

No there are protocols as to how patients should be treated.

I think if you get a patient liable to faint to walk to the ambulance completely unaided and unsupervised then yes, you are to blame when they collapse.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:21

FiveShelties · 16/04/2024 12:53

Did they make you walk, or did you just follow them? I don't understand why one if them didn't stay with you, but I would not have followed them, especially if I thought I might fall.

I hope you are OK.

Unfortunately, I wasn't well enough to make an informed choice as to whether to go with them.

I'm ok now, thank you.

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EnglishBluebell · 16/04/2024 13:23

My god. Complaining about Paramedics because YOU randomly fainted before you reached the ambulance?!?! JFC

FictionalCharacter · 16/04/2024 13:23

I’d report so that they can review their procedures and retrain if necessary.
They dropped the ball. If they expected you to walk they should have asked you if you felt OK to walk, said “this way” or similar, walked with you and kept an eye on you. Just walking off expecting you to follow behind is not OK.

EnglishBluebell · 16/04/2024 13:25

They weren't there they were heading off in front of me. Took them a while to notice I was on the floor, tbh!

"How do you know it took them a while if you were unconscious?"

This!

Choconuttolata · 16/04/2024 13:28

This is something that should have been reported by them as you sustained a head injury due to the fall and there were definitely risk factors that put you at risk of a fall due to fainting so they should have supervised/supported you walking or wheeled you in the chair. They should have also informed the hospital that you had a faint with them and hit your head because it would be relevant to your medical treatment, so it should be on your medical notes. This is a patient safety issue.

IncessantNameChanger · 16/04/2024 13:29

One of them should have walked with you. So yes I'd complain.

I complained when a paramedic was dismissive of my disabled son and missed the injury we went in for completely. I do strongly belive it was because of my sons disability. He made me feel like a chav with badly behaved child. Because he kept talking to him like he was stupid and dismissed me when I said he just didn't understand.

I was amazed that hospital took it seriously. They told him he couldn't work there again ( locum or agency staff). Undoubtedly he got another job as he would be in high demand but hopefully it checked his bedside manner and the next time a non verbal child goes in with a fall from height on metal he might think twice before assuming it was BS because the child couldn't retell the event. My ds had a 6" black bruise in his inner thigh that he missed dispite stripping him naked. He was tutting because my son would whip his pants off for a random man without hesitation. He tutted when I was explaining its OK because I was there too and he was a Dr ( he wasn't but my kid doesn't know what paramedic means.

I left feeling like people like "us" don't deserve medical help.

It's just not OK. No one lost their Job but they need to realise vulnerable people deserve respect and the basic, basic of care.

Silvers11 · 16/04/2024 13:35

Honestly @WatermelonWaveclub I wonder if you were so unwell that you didn't take in what they said to you properly?

I can't imagine any ambulance crew just walking off and in front of you if they wanted you to walk to the ambulance to be honest. Maybe they said wait there, or maybe they said you didn't need to go to hospital and were surprised when they saw you behind them?

Burpie · 16/04/2024 13:35

You shouldn't have followed them, they were probably going to get the trolley. You decided to get up to walk without being asked, I don't really know what else they could have done, so no I wouldn't complain.

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:35

AnotherVice · 16/04/2024 13:01

@WatermelonWaveclub I do find it hard to understand. Why risk a patient falling? Can anyone tell me why they think they made me walk? I honestly, don't get it.
I work for the ambulance service. The crew would have made a dynamic risk assessment that would have included the fact that you felt well enough to get yourself to the surgery rather than call 999 from home if you felt the risk of falling so great. We go to lots of collapses/faints/syncopes which occur for many different reasons from a simple vasovagal episode to a heart attack or stroke. They would have considered all of this. Many, many patients are able to walk after they have recovered from a faint and we would not routinely carry people as much for patient dignity as well as for our backs. I do think they should have walked with you/kept an eye on you though but they're human and as a PP said, when there are 3 instead of the usual 2 it can be easy to think somebody else is. For what it's worth, they would have thought 'oh shit!' and reflected on this already, especially if they had a student with them.

I clearly hadn't made a good risk assessment though had I when I walked into the doctor's and fainted straight away!! I got a taxi to the GP and actually asked the taxi driver to help me inside. Unfortunately it then turned out I had to walk upstairs which I think led to my problems. I was having frequent coughing fits which led to me fainting. It wasn't that I'd just recovered from a one off faint. No need to carry me there was a wheelchair right there which the GP thought I needed.

I think one of the problems was they did not understand the illness I had and they also had no idea about the medication I was on. This may be completely normal for ambulance crew, I don't know but their risk assessment was off (and different to all other professionals.)

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dragonscannotswim · 16/04/2024 13:40

I don't get some of the responses here. OF COURSE they should have walked with you, or even put you in a wheelchair to go out to the ambulance. They must have known there was a high risk of your coughing and fainting again??

Really poor practice. I'd send feedback to let them know.

I hope you're feeling better now?

Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:41

EnglishBluebell · 16/04/2024 13:23

My god. Complaining about Paramedics because YOU randomly fainted before you reached the ambulance?!?! JFC

I did not 'randomly' faint. It was known that I was fainting regularly due to coughing fits mainly being set off when I got up and walked!! It was a fully known risk.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:43

EnglishBluebell · 16/04/2024 13:25

They weren't there they were heading off in front of me. Took them a while to notice I was on the floor, tbh!

"How do you know it took them a while if you were unconscious?"

This!

Because you usually only stay unconscious for a few seconds. When I awoke there was noone with me.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:51

IncessantNameChanger · 16/04/2024 13:29

One of them should have walked with you. So yes I'd complain.

I complained when a paramedic was dismissive of my disabled son and missed the injury we went in for completely. I do strongly belive it was because of my sons disability. He made me feel like a chav with badly behaved child. Because he kept talking to him like he was stupid and dismissed me when I said he just didn't understand.

I was amazed that hospital took it seriously. They told him he couldn't work there again ( locum or agency staff). Undoubtedly he got another job as he would be in high demand but hopefully it checked his bedside manner and the next time a non verbal child goes in with a fall from height on metal he might think twice before assuming it was BS because the child couldn't retell the event. My ds had a 6" black bruise in his inner thigh that he missed dispite stripping him naked. He was tutting because my son would whip his pants off for a random man without hesitation. He tutted when I was explaining its OK because I was there too and he was a Dr ( he wasn't but my kid doesn't know what paramedic means.

I left feeling like people like "us" don't deserve medical help.

It's just not OK. No one lost their Job but they need to realise vulnerable people deserve respect and the basic, basic of care.

That's awful for you and your son. The tech? was dismissive of me when I was trying to explain some things - it was difficult for me to get the words out but I just felt dismissed. This was why I thought did he think I made it up. Strange when the GP had witnessed what happened and called the ambulance.

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Original poster

WatermelonWaveclub · 16/04/2024 13:54

Silvers11 · 16/04/2024 13:35

Honestly @WatermelonWaveclub I wonder if you were so unwell that you didn't take in what they said to you properly?

I can't imagine any ambulance crew just walking off and in front of you if they wanted you to walk to the ambulance to be honest. Maybe they said wait there, or maybe they said you didn't need to go to hospital and were surprised when they saw you behind them?

Yes, I definitely could have not taken in what they said. However, they were definitely aware I was following them and didn't stop me or take hold of my arm or something. I definitely needed hospital.

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