Would you make a complaint about these paramedics?

[WatermelonWaveclub]

I went to my GP the other day as I kept fainting when coughing. The GP said my HR was sky high. Then I coughed and fainted in front of the GP. Afterwards I couldn't move my legs properly. She phoned the hospital who said I need an ambulance. The GP got someone to get me in a wheelchair and take me to the nurse's room where I was put on a bed in a cubicle.

Anyway a few minutes later the ambulance crew turn up (3 of them). They did an ECG - ok but tachycardic. I said my legs were feeling ok by then. They did a lying and standing BP and checked I could feel both sides of my face, could hold both arms up, checked pupils etc. So they say they need to take me to hospital. They start heading off and so I follow them on foot. They're all walking ahead of me, chatting away, not one seeing if I'm ok. So consequently we get into the car park - I have a coughing fit and next thing I know I'm waking up on the car park floor.

I can't stop thinking about it. Were they at fault? Should they have used a wheelchair or at least someone walked with me? At the hospital they wouldn't even let me go to my scans etc in a wheelchair, I had to be taken in my bed. So if GP and nurse wouldn't let me walk was it right that the paramedics did?

Yes, I think it will be good for me to know their version of events. The thing is even if a patient 'wants to walk' it you think it's too risky you don't have to let them.

I'm sorry to hear about that

They would have had a handover from my GP. My Obs weren't fine and I told them how unwell I felt. But I wasn't really with it due to the brain bleed.

I had come round from fainting. However, that is not the only way someone can become unconscious/semi conscious. The ambulance crew were aware of my neurological symptoms.

I was not capable of making a decision as I was having a brain bleed. That did indeed start at the GP practice. The fainting due to coughing, yes, started earlier.

Actually, I had. Until you have it happen to you maybe you won't understand. When I was going to the ambulance it felt like I was watching myself.

You are just looking for an argument.
She said after the fact - you can see my posts. Go and argue with someone else. I don't have the energy sorry.

Hope you get well soon. If you already had a brain haemorrhage and neurological symptoms contact them and make a complaint. They should have been watching out for you either way

No, I had to go upstairs. Stupid me, I should have used the lift. When I came down I was in a wheelchair that went in the lift.

As for the neurological exam - it's quite hazy as to the exact details. But I remember both legs jerking and not being able to move them. I assume that further assessments were done. I remember the ambulance crew doing some tests too. My face I couldn't feel on one side, I believe. But I can't remember too much, tbh. Sorry, I know I'm not being completely clear on this. Some things I seem to remember with clarity and others much less.

It was 111 that made the decision for me to go to the GP surgery.

One the of ways services get better is through patient feedback. This is an example where there could have been a better outcome for OP, so I think it’s perfectly reasonable to raise it and see what the response is. Whether or not you want to complain is another issue to be honest. Worth getting in touch with PALS to ask about your options.

Fair enough, I've not been the clearest. But I have now explained to you multiple times that I was not in a position to make an informed decision. And besides the point, HCPs have to make their own risk assessment - that is their job.

The bleed happened in the GPs room. But putting that aside I was really unwell with whooping cough and had just lost consciousness and had concerning neuro symptoms. I had a terrible headache, severe nausea and was covered in a cold sweat. I was badly unwell and when people are badly unwell they are not in a position to make their own risk assessment.

The repeated posts from @eise reveal a stubborn and absurdly childish approach to AIBU. It is not a forum that requires you to find fault on both sides. You do not win a prize for pretending to be thoughtful and even handed when in reality you just have a strong antipathy for people who stand up for themselves and other vulnerable people.

I'm genuinely baffled by anyone who thinks the OP shouldn't complain!

She presented with frequent losses of consciousness - associated with coughing. Therefore likely to happen again if she coughed which she obviously would.

Additionally they had cause to do a neurological examination so clearly there were neurological concerns. The examination had shown deficits, and she needed further examination quickly else she would have been a lower ambulance priority.

There were three crew so even if only one had stayed with her whilst they got a chair or even walked with her they could have safeguarded her from further injury. Personally I would have thought it utterly inappropriate for her to be walking at all but unassisted is mind boggling. She could have fallen and caused herself a fatal head injury whilst in the ambulance crews care, obviously this isn't right!

I would absolutely feed back to them that this should be a learning experience. I would also want to check that your loc in the car park had been datix'd, I would suspect not.

@eise - speaking as a former nurse, it doesn't matter when @WatermelonWaveclub had the brain bleed. Her symptoms were so serious that the GP rang for an ambulance. She was passing out repeatedly, when she stood up and coughed. Under no circumstances should she have been left to walk to the ambulance unaccompanied.

Frankly, they should have used the wheelchair that was in the room with her, but even if they did think she should walk to the ambulance, they should have been WITH her, monitoring her, ready to assist if she fainted again, not walking ahead of her, not even watching her.

There are no excuses for what they did - it was negligent.

Righteous! @PampasGrass !

So because someone is “fully conscious” they’re fully able and have the mental capacity to make decisions? As someone with an expertise in mental capacity, although it should be presumed, they should do basic checks which they did not.

Maybe because of our insurance system and privatized healthcare in the US Paramedics and ambulance companies are extremely risk averse and generally err in the side of securing the patient rather than leaving them wandering unsupported. Even if you don’t know for sure that the patient might lose consciousness (which they did know) or if you don’t know for sure if they have a broken neck (for example) you are going to prefer securing and immobilizing the patient for safety’s sake. Better too cautious than being the cause of further harm or degradation of patient’s status.

Obviously our private insurance/health care system sucks. But at least we don’t expect patients to be neglected by professionals and just suck it up and say “so sorry, squire,I bled on your Auboisson.”

Dear god, the irony.

It’s a pity you didn’t run out of energy to argue a lot earlier - you have posted with a complete lack of empathy or consideration for the op and seem determined to argue your point despite the facts.

Frankly I would expect a taxi driver to show more care to somebody being collected from a GP practice than was shown to the op by the ambulance crew who attended.

Or... on the other hand and 99.999% more likely, they had left the patient in a safe place (in a cubicle at the doctor's surgery) and had gone to the ambulance to get their chair or a stretcher out of it, and were going to return to collect the patient. The OP had misunderstood and had tried to follow them.

When I collapsed at home, I felt a lot better after they had been with me for a while, but they said they would take me into hospital as a precaution anyway. I said I could walk to the ambulance and they point blank refused to let me, and went and got their wheelchair out of the ambulance.

If it were the case they had gone to get a stretcher because they thought she should not walk then they became negligent when they realised she was following (as they must have to have held the door open for her) and did not then try and get her to sit down or, if she refused, start walking with her.

LOL! Yes, because proper procedure states that it takes ALL THREE ambulance personnel to retrieve a chair or gurney! facepalm

They actually dropped the ball in SO many ways. Even the thought of them leaving her alone is horrific. While they "chatted" and got the stretcher/chair, OP could have gone into cardiac arrest, had another stroke or burst an aneurysm.

I am SO thankful that many of you are not involved in health care. Or, perhaps say, I pray and hope you are not. FFS!

One of the paramedics held the door open for her, @fromaytobe - they knew fine well that she was following them, so it doesn’t matter what they were going to do - they turned their backs on a very unstable patient who had a history of multiple fainting episodes, and whose neuro exam was bad enough that they knew she needed to go to hospital.

Then when the patient fainted - again - in the car park, they did not even notice, until after she had regained consciousness again.

And before any of that, they had examined the patient in a room with a wheelchair in it - so even if they had thought she needed to be wheeled out to the ambulance, they could, and should have either used the chair that was right there, or told her they thought she needed a chair or stretcher, and then left at least one of them with her, whilst the others went out to the ambulance to get it.

They hadn't left me in a safe place if I was walking behind them, had they? And it doesn't take 3 people to get a wheelchair especially considering there was a wheelchair already in the cubicle! I can 100% say they did not do that.

Yes, this is where I can piece things together. If they wanted me to stay in the cubicle they wouldn't have left me alone. If they had wanted a wheelchair there was one right there. If they were going for a stretcher as soon as they realised I was walking behind they would have taken me back to the cubicle.