To feel uncomfortable about her interest in my son

[Whatafustercluck]

Ds is 13. He has this friend, also 13, who is polite enough but is a bit cocky, a bit 'streetwise'. His mum seemed lovely when we met her, and ds speaks highly of her. He's become pretty obsessed with this one friend, to the exclusion of other friends, and has spent a fair bit of time with him over Easter (sleepovers, fishing, cinema etc). He lives about a 30 minute drive away. His mum has said that ds is good for her son, and she's been very encouraging of the friendship. She goes out of her way to collect/ drop off ds at home when we said he couldn't go because it was inconvenient for whatever reason (for example, a mid week one hour round trip just so ds can have dinner there seemed a bit much, but she always comes back with "I'll bring him home" so in ds's eyes there's no reason for us to say no). The father is on the scene, but we don't know much about him, and ds doesn't speak much about him, but says he's 'alright'.

My problem is that it feels like this boy's mother is now massively overstepping the mark, but I can't work out whether I'm being unreasonable and overly jealous/ protective. She messages my son, directly, a lot. She invites him over to theirs, gets him excited by promising to take him fishing or whatever, and then I end up being the one who spoils it all in my son's eyes if I say no. She always asks me/ dh directly in the end, but only after I've spoken to ds about not making arrangements we don't know about and pointed out that things like that should be arranged parent to parent.

I get Mondays and Fridays off work, so had wanted to do something with ds and 7yo dd this Friday as the weather is good. She's been messaging him asking him if he wants to go over, go fishing, stay for dinner. Dh overheard ds in his bedroom discussing it with her. Of course, after that was put in his head, ds had no desire to spend the day with me and his little sister, and who could blame him? I know that friendships are important and I don't want to stand in the way of that. But he's still part of our family, and I want to do things together.

I looked at his phone last night. This isn't an invasion of privacy, ds knows that I spot check and it's a condition of him having a phone. There are no messages or communication between him and his friend. All the banter and arrangements are between him and his friend's mum. She's clearly one of these mums who likes to be seen as a 'friend' (by both her own son and his friends) rather than a mum. A few of the messages contain swearing, in a bantering way. There's a message on there in which ds lies to her about telling me to fuck off (he's never said that to me, so I can only assume he was trying to sound cool).

Everything about these interactions makes me feel increasingly uncomfortable. I remarked to dh yesterday that it almost feels like grooming, with us and our rules being undermined by her (she encourages him to go on his xbox with this friend straight after school, even though ours rules are homework first, then an hour of xbox). That sounds dramatic when I read it back (grooming) but it's how I feel, and dh agreed. I'm starting to think we need to take a firmer line on this.

Aibu to feel this is inappropriate, or am I being over protective and prudish? I'd never make plans with another person's child directly with them, and I said to dh that if this was a man doing this with a 13yo girl, it would be deemed grossly inappropriate.

Does he talk about the son at all and what they do when he visits? Do the two 13 year olds go and go fishing themselves or is the mum always there? Is he actually visiting the son or the mum, is what I'm wondering.

The dynamics sounds very unusual and off balance.

My DD is 13. She messages he friends directly for meet ups at the weekend or school holidays. They check that it's OK with their parents and then make the arrangements themselves.

For more organised things like parties, it's arranged by parent to parent messaging.

I don't directly message the children at all.

As others have said aid message her and tell her you already have plans for today and in future to run any suggested outings past you. If this was a daughter with a friends father messaging her it would be the same scenario, stamp it out now would be my advice.

It's grooming and inappropriate. Honestly I'd call her out directly. Tell her how inappropriate her messages to a 13 year old child are.

If this was a man and your daughter what would you think? Think that.

It's actually far less uncommon than you think, the stories DP tells me about his friends mums and his mums friends are vile. He loved it as a teenage boy, who wouldn't want an older woman sucking you off while you wait for your friend to get home?

And explain to him that she may seem like his friend and she may seem like someone he can trust, but an adult should not.behave like that towards a child, and all adults know that. They know what the boundaries with other peoples children are. Safe adults, adult you can trust, obey those boundaries. She isn't acting like a safe adult and when he's older he'll understand it and he wouldn't ever behave like that. Ask him what he'd think if his dad was messaging his female friends the way this woman messages him. Would he feel comfortable with it?

DP ended up being abused for 10 years by his friends mum who groomed him as a child so maybe I'm abit close to the issue.

I don't think you're being dramatic here and I think you need to make it very clear to this mother that it is inappropriate for her to be contacting your ds in this way. If she wants to be involved in arranging the boys to get together, she contacts you. But the better option is the boys arranging things themselves. This other boy must be mortified!

I would also go as far as to say it's grooming but I don't know the purpose of it. Possibly she just wants to feel like a "cool mom" but texting an unrelated 13 year old boy is weird behaviour and you need to do what you can to interfere with it.

It's a worrying sign that he is saying things to impress her and that she is encouraging it. I don't like the sound of this at all.

Red flag city. It is wildly inappropriate for her to be contacting your son directly. Do they go to the same school? If yes I would contact school to let them know this is happening in case your son needs any support.

You need to talk to your son about this and tell him that she shouldn't be contacting him directly. He and the other 13 year old child are more than capable of arranging things between them.

She is massively overstepping and to be honest I would be reducing contact. It it bordering on grooming, building a relationship with your son, going against the parents etc. She is on very thin ice.

You need to contact her directly and tell her to stop contacting your son directly, I would write it in a text message so that she has it and screen shot it. Then if she oversteps again then you can take it further.

Mother of two sons here. This is totally inappropriate and needs to stop. At 13 they are perfectly able to manage their own relationship and she does not need to be involved. It’s creepy and whether she sees your son as a substitute for hers or whether she wants to bask in a bit of hero worship, it’s unacceptable.

Deal with her directly. Tell her you don’t want her contacting your son. The boys need to sort themselves out. And then dial back the visits and have the other boys over to yours more.

Bloody hell OP, that is so strange and totally inappropriate.

I would be blunt with your son, say you spotchecked his phone as is standard, and encountered all these messages from the mother. Explain to him this is not his fault - but it is inappropriate and strange for an adult to communicate with a 13 year old this way. You are sorry but while he can have his friend visit you, he can’t go there anymore. You would also like him to widen his friendship group to three friends at least.

Email her to say that you uncovered the messages and obviously it’s inappropriate between and adult and a child.

Let the school know - be clear you have no reason to think anything untoward but directly messaging a child in this way is inappropriate. Let her know you have done this (being clear you aren’t accusing her of anything dire).

The reason I’m suggesting you contact the school and let your know know that you have is not because I think the school needs to know, but because you need an instant close down. This women is very manipulative so you want a blunt instrument to get her out of the picture swiftly.

Obviously her number needs to be blocked , can you add that to the security settings?

Urgh. She’s borrowing your Ds as a “good influence” without appreciating that the reason he might be a good influence is his family and your boundaries. I think in your position I’d text the mom myself saying that your rules are that Ds has to do homework before Xbox and that you will have some family trips where Ds is expected to be with you and his sister. I’d also add a ps that you would rather she don’t text him directly in future.

That is strange OP so YADNBU! The only time I’d ever text my teenagers (older than your son) friend is if I can’t get hold off my DC and I want to know where they are and I know that they are with that friend. And they are girls!

Yanbu at all. I would never message my 12 yo DS’ friends and would find it very odd if their parents messaged my son. If it was constant texting like this and arranging things like this then I would be alarmed. I would want to block her phone number from his phone. I’d also message her myself and ask her to please only message you in future if she wants to arrange things

Yep.
My heart rate went up reading your OP! I'd be fucking furious with her!

I'd phone her first. Tell her to back off. Tell her she messages me only and i do the arranging and facilitating of the play dates (because that's what they still are at that age and that distance).

Then i'd sit down with DS and have a chat about what's happened and why. You know him best and how to talk to him. I'd tell him it's not his fault. That an adult has been overstepping and behaving wrongly. That he could still see his friend and that it's not the friend's fault either.

But i'd def mention the lying about swearing.

Block her number off his phone AND check occasionally that it's not reappeared under a different name.

As a teen I admired and liked some of my friends parents as I deemed them to be 'cool'. I certainly enjoyed their company as much as that of the friends themselves.
But the messages seem weird. I'd expect 13 yo to arrange things amongst themselves, then obviously say can I go there to the parent.
I guess it's just telling her to go through you is the only way to make her stop texting him without him possibly losing his friend.

It's a bit weird having mums involved at 13 anyway tbh, never mind one mum texting the child more than his friend does. Normally at that age, the kids sort it themselves and just ask permission to go.

I had a friend whose mum was very involved and it was because my friend was a bit different, her mental and emotional age was a lot younger than she was and her mum was so excited that she had a friend at all.

Eventually I ended up gradually phasing them out because I grew up and she didn't. Shame but in my 30s I have no desire to go to Disney world or to watch children's films at the cinema. Does your ds friend have any SEN?

Either way I'd be telling her that you aren't happy with this level of communication with your child.

Take some power back and start inviting this friend to yours to suss out the situation. The mums reaction will tell you something. Does she want to have your son on her 'territory? You can also see what kind of relationship the friend has with your son.

The encouraging him to break your rules, talk back at you, ditch plans with you are all common tactics. Think of how lions hunt. Separate the prey from its herd. You separate your target from their family. Break those bonds, break that trust. So he won't believe you when you try to separate them, he won't listen to you, he'll sneak around behind your back. When something feels wrong he won't come to you.

You need to call her out. Shame her. Make her stop. Because if you don't stop her, you won't be able to keep him away from her. And if she refuses and acts like there's nothing wrong then tell her you'll get a second opinion from the school. They have safeguarding and stuff. Tell her you'll show the teachers her messages to your child and see if they think it's appropriate.

It's the "you're behaving this way in private, let's see if you're happy for this behaviour to be made public. If you're doing nothing wrong you don't mind everyone seeing this"

No, YANBU at all. It’s really bizarre behaviour that a mum would want to be regularly messaging a 13yo boy she’s not related to. Perhaps the odd message to arrange something, although really it should be either arranged between your DS and her DS, or between you and her.

I would put a stop to this, it sound’s entirely inappropriate on her part, and if she were a man people would jump straight to grooming. Even if that’s not her intention at all, she’s completely and utterly overstepping.

It's inappropriate and odd. You need to speak to her and knock it on the head, your DS won't know how to handle it. You also need some boundaries in place, if you want a day with your child then you say no to them, even if your DS is disappointed.
There could be a million reasons behind this behaviour, but I wouldn't allow my child with her until I had sorted it. I would block her number in your DS's phone if it doesn't stop as well.

With each paragraph I started feeling ever more twitchy! OP this would definitely raise alarm bells for me/my DH.

I'd be messaging or calling the mum and telling her that her messaging DS is wholly inappropriate and the undermining needs to stop. Sit down with your boy and explain that this is grooming (seems extreme but as you said in your OP, if this was my DH with our DD's friends I'd definitely be freaking out!). Yes, he can have the lad as a friend but only at your house; he is not to go to his friends house again.

How horrible.

I thought the first part of your post, about offering lifts etc, sounded fine and normal. But the bit about them messaging and bantering is really weird and inappropriate. I would definitely put a stop to this. Either DS communicates directly with his friend or the mum contacts you.

A friend of mine's son had a bit of a weird relationship start up with his GFs mother. The son was 17 though, so a bit trickier for my friend to deal with. Friend was so angry but rode it out.

It fizzled out when the relationship with the GF went tits up and there really was no genuine reason for him to be round their house any more. The son found a different GF and the weird mum was left hanging.

Trouble with OPs situation is that this friendship with the other boy isn't likely to fizzle out the same way that a boyfriend/girlfriend one at that age will.

I'd block her number on DS phone, then message her on your own phone saying you are teaching DS healthy boundaries so can any future plans be made via you. The "healthy boundaries" are as much about phone usage as anything else.

Chatty messages between an adult and child are totally inappropriate.

Bet she'll be the one buying kids booze for parties etc in a couple of years.

@Whatafustercluck

I don't 🤔 think it's grooming ,

I think your son cause he is not street wise as her son is,

She his mother is encouraging this friendship to the maximum as possibly as your son is such a good influence and desperately hoping this will carry on and her son will not be so much hardwork or rebellious or unruly ,

It's akin similar to in school,
when a school teacher puts the class swot pupil or good natured pupil next to the disruptive wild pupil or pupil who likes to clown 🤡 around,
Hoping desperately that good natured or and studious pupil will have a good enough influence to counter act the tricky wild disruptive or head work nature of other pupil,
that dynamics,

She is using your son as a easier alternative childminding option,
than having to deal with her son all the time as its much harder work emotionally and energy wise..

The kids should be making plans between themselves with very limited parental involvement- odd lift here and there. I would give her a call and say that you’re blocking her number on DS’s phone. 100%. I’d also start ‘hosting’ (as in the kids hanging out) at yours.

Tell her to stop messaging your son, if it continues I’d contact the police.

@Whatafustercluck

It's obviously totally inappropriate for her to contact your son in this way,

and you need to tell your son this too, and the reasons behind it in an age appropriate way,

I would also tell her that this way of communication is not appropriate and any communication needs to done via yourself as a parent,
and yes it's cause you are teaching what healthy boundaries looks like,

You need to monitor the situation

Better still block 🚫 her tel no as soon as possible...