Honour-based crime up 62%

[Papyrophile]

According to the Family Law Centre, honour-based crime in the UK went up 62% from 2020-2022. For explanation, honour-based crime and abuse mostly affects women from SE Asian or Middle Eastern backgrounds where the cultural traditions are very strongly patriarchal, arranged marriages are routine and women are regarded as less important/valuable than men.

As a feminist, this is extraordinarily distasteful to me but I am not affected at all by it. How do other people see the situation?

I'd call it Cultural Misogyny

I think this is a really good point.

The behaviour of these individuals is considered reprehensible in their own country, but people/ police/ authorities just lump ‘foreigners’ into one pile and think ‘that’s how they do things’

i have relatives who come from a country where men can legally have four wives, but none of my relatives do and it’s massively looked down on. It’s something ‘backward yokels’ do. One distant relative attempted it ( because he was too lazy to get divorced) and his female relatives in particular hit the roof! He was basically bullied into getting a divorce.

It’s like comparing all white people to those who turn up to a Tommy Robinson ( Yaxley-Lennon) March

Developed country imports third world men and is shocked when they behave in a third world manner. [shocked pikachu face]

Interesting thought @Pireck.

I get refugee men coming from repressive regimes to the EU and UK, if they are gay or belong to a persecuted minority religious group. But economic migrants surely just want to work and earn money, I am told. At when do the young men begin to believe that their 'male-ness' entitles them to grope every female they fancy during public festivities, because women are only on earth for men to direct and use. I am thinking about the New Year's Eve celebration in Germany, when there were multiple rapes and assaults.

The reality is actually quite sad because many of the men who come over are from backgrounds where they can't afford to support a wife in their home country, but can afford to escape and drop it all for a chance at something different here. However, no women in the UK or other developed countries are interested because they all have something called rights. So they live pretty miserable lives tbh. It's not easy or maybe not even possible to reform someone's mind once they've been brought up with much more brutal and sickening attitudes towards women.

Lots of migrants, from all around the world, many targeting the EU's wealthiest countries, for entirely rational reasons. Countries aiming for EU levels of prosperity and success, like Poland and Hungary, just shunt them forward to better/more developed economies better able and resourced to "integrate" incomers.

In the very (very) long term, I think a population shift will be worthwhile for the UK and most of the northern EU where reproductive rates are below replacement level and the climate change factors are unpredictable, but the social/cultural back stories that will come along behind them dont scream that the impetus is towards liberal social democracy.

I'm very sorry to have judged and for the personal hurt I may have put on you @Pireck, between our two posts. That dimension really had never occcurred to me.

we need to stop using that term. It isn't about "honour" it is mostly about controlling and abusing women.

I don't disagree @Brefugee, but do please read the discussion between the time it was posted yesterday, and do stop weighing in having NOT read the thread. Your opinion is most welcome, but moderation is important! The conversation has moved on.

Read it through, this is already a discussion where posters have engaged attentively and no one has brought prejudice or politics. No one has been critical, only constructive and informative. It would be lovely to keep it moderate and possibly useful to better social debate and policy.

Every year about 110 women are killed by men.
Only 8% are killed by a stranger.
6.5% of the population is Muslim.
About 13% of murdered women fall under the honour killing label.

It is a form of domestic violence.
If we keep working on open communication and reporting that number will normalise. It wasn't that long ago that the white on white figures were similar.

If your statistics are right @NerdWhoEatsMedlar , that is even worse than I feared.

It is at this point I confess that I am rubbish at stats, and particularly at choosing/setting parameters. Please feel free to try to define the definitions.

Statistics bob about.

Women killed by men has bobbed at a bit under 200 for quite a few decades.
In recent years that has decrease to nearer the 110 I mentioned.

Honour killing %s today are similar to domestic violence killings last century.
Yes there is work to be done. Yes the work done is having an effect.

So, on balance, @NerdWhoEatsMedlar not catastrophic and not getting worse, give or take the oddities. We all need to calm down a bit?

It is really difficult to know.
Women who used to be at risk of honour crimes have been greatly enabled. Immigrants on the whole diverge towards the norm quite quickly. Integration is real.
The odd weirdos are out there, they may always be.

You have to be privy to a lot of data to be even a wee bit sure about what is going on.

The risk for a very small percentage of women is very real.
There are agencies trying to target/help these women.

Good to know that @NerdWhoEatsMedlar and wish you well. It sounds as if you are on the bright side of the fence.

Last message for today because I am ready to stop. I will look again tomorrow, but huge thanks to everyone who has contributed. Personally, I feel much better informed and I am so grateful that no one has been confrontational or politicised. Sleep tight friends.

I don’t think the term ‘honour killing’ needs changed at all tbh. We all know it has nothing to do with how we interpret honour in the Uk. Unfortunately the authorities are frightened to challenge these crimes for fear of being seen as racist. While in the Uk you either abide by our laws or you leave. Those are your two options.
Bringing domestic violence into the equation has nothing to do with the topic of ‘honour killings’. It’s a classic example of ‘ but what aboutery’.
When the term ‘honour killing is mentioned everyone knows exactly what it means.

I know we know what it means, but our use of it implies acceptance of the term. Which translates in the heads of those likely to carry out such a killing think we accept that "honour killing" is ok.

I think we need to call it what it is: and carry on categorising killing of women with a term that we can accept. (Macho Culture Killings won't wash, but that's the kind of thing i'd aim for)

Except that "everyone" doesn't.
Language matters.

You reject the term and you pass the message that there is no excuse and you won't be any part of saying there is or saying anything that could be interpreted that way.

Whereas if you use the term that is used to justify these attacks and murders, it is seen as acceptance by people who believe in this fucked up honour shit and it also adds to the them and us bollocks in some people's minds with 'honour' killings being a Them. Whereas there is no them and us, there is only male violence.

How does it show acceptance if it's the term used on the indictment?

Why would anyone think it's acceptable if they read that such and such has been convicted for it?

We use sexual abuse as term. Doesn't mean it's accepted.

Honour based crime is not always and only perpetrated by men. Women take part in it as well.

It might be male led, but it would be wrong to describe it as exclusively male.

Part of male violence is the fear it creates in women which leads to acts of self protection