Honour-based crime up 62%

[Papyrophile]

According to the Family Law Centre, honour-based crime in the UK went up 62% from 2020-2022. For explanation, honour-based crime and abuse mostly affects women from SE Asian or Middle Eastern backgrounds where the cultural traditions are very strongly patriarchal, arranged marriages are routine and women are regarded as less important/valuable than men.

As a feminist, this is extraordinarily distasteful to me but I am not affected at all by it. How do other people see the situation?

I very much doubt it has gone up, but that it is easier to report now, and more widely understood which helps with reporting.

I knew there was a reason for using the term and to be honest I don't know what the alternative should be

I would certainly use murder rather than killing.

Are they cultural murders?

"She made me do it" crimes?

These crimes happen over a wider demography than many wish to admit.

I don’t think it is helpful to focus on the word honour. It is called that because the perpetrators perceive it as such and the word honour is usually in quotation marks. Yes we all know it is wrong but for me it adds weight to the horrendous nature of this abhorrent crime as it is obvious what it is about and the more we talk about it and use these words the more people at risk of this will understand that it is not acceptable and may find the courage to report any concerns they have

Absolutely!

They should more correctly be termed hypocritcal crimes as some men in these cultures do as they like and it's all swept under the carpet

This is what I was going to ask too.

The more information put out about 'honour crimes' the more likely it is that victims or witnesses will report.

So increasing incident rates are hopefully a sign of decreasing tolerance of this treatment.

Interesting discussion re the use of the term. Personally I totally agree it sounds like it makes it ok.
However because it's cultural and part of a few communities I think that's the distinction. Violence against women perpetrated under the false flag of honour maybe better.

Distasteful ?!

Cultural murder might be more appropriate. Interestingly and rather depressingly the mothers of the victims are often complicit in these crimes.

The figures are around 4,000 woman reporting crimes.

They include forced marriage rape and death.

I wonder if the woman are more likely to report - which is a good thing - but then what? What % or crimes are solved and convicted?

What happens to these woman once they report? Do they get removed, support?

The term Honor suggests it’s the woman’s fault and deserved it - I think you’re right we need another term. Murder is murder disguised as victim blaming.

I wonder how many men get killed for dishonouring their family?

This is what I was going to post too. It's usually the men doing the crime but mothers and other women can be involved.

The term honour based should not be used. Like most violence against women it is really about control and conform not honour. It is disgusting that the UK have never really tackled this issue head on. Groups like Southall Sisters have been highlighting it for years.

More about their work. https://southallblacksisters.org.uk/

THIS

Now it's also come to light that a man can be deemed a risk to women, comit sexual crimes, yet have asylum etc applications are approved, we (as women) should be up in arms tbh. We should be asking why deportations aren't happening and UK prisons are deemed appropriate. That won't necessarily help those born here, but it will be taking a real stance against violence towards women and girls. We need that title so religious leaders get involved. Often the whole family and community will stay silent, which is the difference. Jeremy Corbyn spoke out against the scenes outside a hotel housing refugees, yet ignored the fact that some of the men had been sexually harassing schoolgirls and hanging around schools, all ignored/denied by the police. We can't ignore the cultural element if we want to keep everyone safe. It is a matter of re-education.

Calling these crimes honour based holds up the patriarchal roots from which they were born. The term should be banished, same as I believe for the term "crime of passion".

They should describe them as they are: Murder/assault against women. What's even worse is that it's usually close male relatives (dad, brother, uncle) perpetrating these crimes. Disgusting.

Anyone interested in this should watch The Push on channel 4 , it's is an incredible insight into how even with some third generation SE Asian men / families misogynistic beliefs and cultures are thriving.
In the tragic case it details (with footage of the trial as it was Scotland) how the British born and educated , highly intelligent and independent beautiful career woman Fawziyah went to live with her in-laws when she married and was considered to be their daughter.
It really is deeply nuanced but I think lessons could be learnt from the case and honest discussions within communities must be encouraged.

Has it gone up as the number of people in the affected communities increased? There has been considerable immigration from south east Asia recently.

Is it being more reported? Are women in these communities feeling more confident in coming forward to report it.

As a society the more we know about these terrible crimes, the better chance we have in stopping them.

While ever these cultural "laws" are upheld by the religions who condone this hideous crime, it will continue to happen.
I went to college with a girl back in the 80s, who had to run away from her family, because her choice was to either marry a man she'd never met, who was 50 years her senior, or be "taken to Pakistan". Her mother was the one who spelt it out to her in no uncertain terms and actually helped her to escape, despite the risk to herself. She lived with her mothers old friend, miles away from her home town, who thankfully wasn't known by the rest of the family.
She had to totally change her look and was forever looking behind her. She was a bag of nerves. I hope she finally found the peace she wanted. What an awful way to live.

I have since read books about Asian women in abusive marriages; locked in the house, allowed no access to family, phones etc, raped, threats of death, the parents in law complicit in physical abuse. All hidden behind closed doors. And the woman doesn't have to have committed any offence, she just has to exist! Males can get away with anything apparently, because they are men!

It breaks my heart to think that any woman lives in fear of this, the majority of them with no form of accessible help or support.
But then, what is the solution, how can we help?

The issue of 'cultural sensitivity' led to industrial levels of looking-the-other-way when so many girls were being raped in Rotherham, Rochdale, Newcastle, Oxford, Bristol, Aylesbury and so many other places.

I think that's one of the barriers to addressing the problem. Politicians (of every party) are wary of being tarred with accusations of racism.

Apologies, I can't be around again until later. When I turned in yesterday, there hadn't been any comments.

I agree. I very much doubt the incidences of ' honour crimes' have gone up by that much. More that they were committed and covered up by the family/ community, and the victim pressured into not reporting it for fear of bringing ' shame' onto the family. It's good that these cases are being prosecuted more and people are more willing to report it. The only way to stop this happening is for the ' shame' being that you have been dragged to court and prosecuted for beating your wife/ sister/daughter usually. Its always women who suffer when people make excuses for their own inaction on the basis of ' cultural sensitivities''. It's always they who are trapped in the house unable to speak English and escape or earn their own money, or married off at 16 to an illiterate 60 year old, or suffer fgm or have their votes stolen. Of course women are also often perpetrators or are complicit. They need to be prosecuted too.

It's nothing to do with honour but a power based misogynistic view that sees daughters, girls and women quite simply as "property" of male family members to do as they wish with.

If forbid such daughters should have opinions or wishes of their own then they are to be punished through violence if necessary. Otherwise this might undermine their "masculinity" or be viewed as western or negatively impact their image amongst other like minded males in the community.

To criticise such a mindset runs the risk of being accused as racist.

Ideas for a replacement term?
Male Ego murders
Family control crimes
Inadequate men attacks