Honour-based crime up 62%

[Papyrophile]

According to the Family Law Centre, honour-based crime in the UK went up 62% from 2020-2022. For explanation, honour-based crime and abuse mostly affects women from SE Asian or Middle Eastern backgrounds where the cultural traditions are very strongly patriarchal, arranged marriages are routine and women are regarded as less important/valuable than men.

As a feminist, this is extraordinarily distasteful to me but I am not affected at all by it. How do other people see the situation?

I don't have the figures to hand but given how much violence against women and children is committed by white British men it would be very hypocritical to single out other ethnicities, unless there was clear evidence they commit significantly more offences as to justify it.

And by evidence I mean actual statistical evidence and not just examples of what the media reports. As referenced above Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford are often used to infere that Asian / Muslim men are more likely to be abusers. Yet rarely do we see people using Glasgow, Wolverhampton / Walsall, or the international British paedophile ring to suggest the same of white British people.

Ridiculous to excuse such violence as 'cultural'. It might shock these men to learn that they live in Britain, where attacking women is generally frowned upon.

I think such crimes should be categorised as "machismo" given that they originate in patriarchal societies, dominate most major religions and linger and remain powerful in impoverished criminal and marginal/peasant/rural regions worldwide. In southern Italy, the Camorra and Ndragheta exert similar coercive control over the female members of the family, until they are past menopause and the Madonna/Whore dichotomy is no longer relevant. Disclaimer: I am not claiming any expert knowledge of Italy beyond odd bits of reading, just stating that it's not confined to Asians or Muslims.

Fundamentally, male on female violence disgraces men regardless of their race, religion or any other criteria.

We need to stop calling it honour based crime
There is no honour in it whatsoever
misogynistic scum based crime??

Saw the story on the lady in Bradford - another example

It's male violence towards women - no honour about it

Pretty sure the term originally came into use because it was viewed as an attenuating circumstance - similar to the "crime of passion" or "family tragedy" label to other types of femicides. You do make a good point but I wonder to what extent it's possible to completely turn the exculpatory nature of the term on its head just like that. That said, I don't have a good alternative to offer.

You are completely right that white men can be abusers too.

but there is a cultural context here that can’t be ignored. Of course, misogyny still exists in the UK but it’s fair to say that our society and laws have made it clear that women are equal, women are able to have sex lives etc. ( even if the reality is we get paid less, are judged for having multiple partners in a way men aren’t)

while British society is still misogynistic, it’s pushed underground. And it’s fair to say women’s rights are far better here than in north west Pakistan.

these men are raised to think they own women and don’t even have to feel embarrassed about thinking that way. That must be very disinhibiting.

white British men exhibit their misogyny in a different way.

I also think there was a fear of tackling it because of squeamishness of offending people’s culture.

Exactly. It’s disgusting.

That’s ridiculous. It would absolutely be talked about the same way if communities of British immigrants to Asian countries assembled long-standing paedophile rings of Asian girls.

Of course there are abusers in all communities, and most abuse does come at the hands of White men, but where there are characteristics of certain groups that make it more difficult for women with that particular society to report a crime or escape from their situation, it does need to he labelled. Unfortunately in the case of honour crime, there is the additional layer of the entire family being complicit, including the mother/mother in law, in some cases protection from the wider community. Not to mention the ' flight risk' etc of someone disappearing to another country to escape capture, the ' disappearing of British girls to often Pakistan against their will, etc etc. These are specific characteristics of honour crimes that have to be looked at over and above the general male violence against women, so it has to be sub categorised. Saying ' But White men do it too' is not helpful to women who are under enormous pressure not to bring shame upon the family and who risk losing their entire family and community if they escape.

I am also Indian by origin. The problem I think is that Mumbai and Delhi are not representative of most areas of India. Gang rape and murder, and subsequent lack of prosecution is a huge problem in India. Another issue is that when we look at British Asian communities, they revert to the culture they lived in when they left, not the culture that exists now. So they are in some cases far more ' traditional' than they would have been if they had lived in India/Pakistan.

Why do you specify Muslim men and women do you believe that it is confined to the following of Islam and no other beliefs? Or that it's the basis of Islam?

Of course there is no honour in it that's not what it's saying....the excuse used in these acts is the protection of a families honour hence the name.

You're missing the point completely, the point isn't that Asian men commit more crimes than white men. There are many more white men in this country and many more crimes by white men. Nowhere has anyone said that Asian men are more likely to be abusers, you are making that up completely.

The point made is that the police are more likely to look the other way when culturally sensitive crimes occur for fear of being accused of being racist. This puts women and girls especially those from other cultures at more risk because the police are less inclined to get involved as evidenced by what happened in Rochdale/Rotherham etc.

There are sub divisions of most acts of abuse and explained earlier....so child abuse included neglect, emotional, physical, sexual, domestic violence, faith based etc...you need to know it's variations to be alert to it you need to know the individual risk factors. We don't as professionals lump it as abuse because it allows things to be overlooked.
We know there are risk factors for women and girls that make some types of abuse more prevalent nobody is saying that a man of any race or religion cannot kill a woman because he thinks his honour is at stake but that is not honour based killing which is about the beliefs of the wider family unit and social pressures in the same way as there is more risk of fgm in certain cultures but I'm sure some sick men have mutilated women without it being classed as fgm ....if we insist on ignoring things for fear of being racist women will suffer.....in honour based abuse as with fgm women are part of the problem.

I prefer the term femicide.

Police are scared to touch this sort of crime because people claim its cultural.

I have family in a part of the world not exactly known for its enlightened (or even humane) treatment of women and girls.

However whenever I see ‘man originally from XX country murders daughter for wearing makeup /having boyfriend/breathing…’ I can bet my boots the man will most likely come from/originate from a certain community/area. Even in that country the reputation of this community that of ‘backward yokels’ (for want of a better description).

I assume that most child murder in the U.K. by ‘natives’ are in nature covering sexual/physical abuse or plain old evil ‘punishments’ (or of course family jealousy). Occasionally religious beatings/punishments.

A few posters have used the word 'femicide'. Interested to understand the thinking behind that preference, if someone would like to elaborate.

@Deipara In particular, does femicide refer specifically to victims of family "honour" killings?

Femicide - murder of women/girls because they are women/girls. I feel it’s male on female crimes.

‘Honour’ because they are believed to have transgressed in some way, causing disgrace to the family, therefore as ‘your belonging’ you feel you have the right to murder them (can be male or female victims or murderers). Although how can there be any honour in murdering your child, I’ll never know.

Yes. See the factsheet from the WHO
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-RHR-12.38

Agreed, add to that FGM. Ask why is it that UK born girls are still being cut. The answer is that the communities they belong to know that the penalties for mutilating their daughters are minimal. And often the FGM is taking place in the UK, it is no longer always the case that girls are taken abroad for special holidays to be cut.

Thanks, that's what I assumed it was, and yes, completely abhorrent and vengeful.

The whole concept of protecting family "honour" seems a bit 12th century to me. Obviously there is reputation to consider/uphold, but it seems barbaric to believe that misdemeanours should be punishable by death -- even within a community that prizes cultural tradition. And surely, a reputation for violent abuse, even murder, is not something that reflects well on the perpetrator?

I imagine because the UK borders are seemingly open to all, the crime statistics must also rise.