My 4 year old is driving me insane

[upthewallie]

Maybe I'm expecting too much but she's just such hard work.

Every time we go to do something fun, she never wants to leave. She's so defiant.

Everything is ' NO '.

No matter what I try to do, she just doesn't do as she's told.

Maybe I'm expecting too much from her ?

For example today we went to soft play and when it was time to leave, I tried to distract immediately with ' hey susie let's go to the toy shop '. I genuinely was going to take her there and she was like ' NO ' so I said, we do need to go now though. So I went over to her with her shoes in my hand and she was sticking her tongue out at me and laughing at me going ' da da da da da ' and blowing at me. So I said, put your shoes on. She said no. Then I said ok I can see you're having trouble listening right now, so I'm going to help you. She was kicking me whilst I was trying to put her shoes on and sticking her tongue out.

Anyway I managed to get her out. I told her it wasn't acceptable and therefore we were not going to the toy shop because she didn't listen and she kicked me etc.

Later on I asked her about it and asked her why she didn't listen and kicked me when we needed to leave and she said she was just playing. I explained sometimes we can't just play and it's not nice to kick etc.

Anyway it's like this a lot when we need to leave places and I'm sick and tired of it.

Hair drying and brushing can be a challenge as well sometimes. It's very frustrating and nothing I do helps. Any advice ?

She sounds like she’s having a lot of treats/experiences out, which are lovely but also creating more opportunities for the rude behaviour. There needs to be an immediate punishment or as soon as you can. Once she kicks you I wouldn’t discuss it any further but at home there needs to be there will be no tv because you hurt me not they’ll be no toy shop but you can have tv or whatever at home.

When she started being rude you used a treat to entice her and that’s dangerous ground! She’s old enough to know you don’t kick me and come home not because there’s a treat but because you’ve had a treat and now it’s time to go home. You need a very firm consistent approach to her hurting you because that’s not ok.

It's hard isn't it as at 4 we expect them to be more reasonable and respond to our requests. I get a lot of after school restraint collapse at the moment. We definitely can't do any parks or fun things immediately afterwards as she emotionally just can't handle the leaving to go home.

I don’t really have any advice but as a Mum
who is going through a big attitude change with my own 4 YO at bedtime, I feel much less alone!

Some of the suggestions here are good op. It’s perfectly normal for a four year old to struggle with transition. This is what it likely is as other posters said and something that comes with age, some kids struggle with them more than others. My own four year old struggles and when I worked in a nursery many others did too of the same age. Indeed, it can also be a sensory thing where they are struggling to regulate and can get very cross. The advice above about giving warnings that a change is soon happening such as going home is fantastic. Some kids work well with “first” and “then” cards. Also giving an option can help a ton as someone mentioned with the example of staying longer or going to the toy shop, it can hand back some control. Being clear about expectations and offering reminders during an activity can help a lot too. It can be very frustrating op! I do think the best tip though is the one about praising the positive and we found a sticker chart a great success. They want to please a lot of the time at that age and it can be a struggle for them. I’d say as she gets the bit older things will get better and easier but you are in the trenches now!

She has so many treats and experiences and gets so many things she wants indeed. I spoil her like crazy !

However, I did not say she can go to the toy shop after bad behaviour.

I was tired and I thought that just saying we will go to the toy shop, would mean she'd just want to go straight away. I was trying to completely avoid any battle or dragging out of the leaving.

So I said it before she'd been rude and then I took it away kind of thing as a consequence. She cried about not going to the toy shop once we were in the car, so it definitely all registered.

Oh please I’ve had two four year old girls. Not wanting their hair brushed, not wanting to leave fun places and not doing as they are told is utterly standard behaviour.

This is exactly what we do with our son.

You need to work on staying calm. Speak calmly and firmly and say it like you mean it. Don't repeat yourself and don't give lots of attention for bad behaviour. Ignore the no's and the laughter and just put her shoes on. When she does co-operate, praise her and give her lots of attention. Basically, try and ignore behaviour you don't want (within reason) and reward good behaviour with lots of praise and attention!

I don't imagine that spoiling her 'like crazy' helps matters. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I haven't read the full thread but placemarking for tomorrow...
I have 4 year old twins and they are both the same. It's frankly an absolute nightmare trying to do anything sometimes

Agree with @Antsinmypantsneedtodance

We always gave several warnings about going out & also about leaving places. So half hour, then 15 mins & couple of reminders few mins before.

Don't promise rewards for just doing as expected.

Some children are stronger willed than others unfortunately.

Could you let her take the lead and decide more for herself? Sounds like she might enjoy having more power about what happens.

It’s easy to spoil her and give her lots of treats but this is not going to help. She needs to know not everyday is a big treat or an event. Help her enjoy small things (or do you find this hard as well and would prefer lots of treats and fun?!)
Shes basically getting a treat, behaving badly, getting some form of consequence but it’s no big deal because you’ll go back to treating her later that day/the next day!

But why did she need go to the toy shop after being at a play centre? A play centre is a treat. It’s easy to be the never says no fun parent, harder to quietly work on bringing up your child to enjoy playing at home, in the park etc and not being spoilt.

My kiddo was diagnosed autistic as a late teenager, the late diagnosis was due to girl traits not being as obvious as boy traits. It was missed for a long time, partly because I didn't understand what autism was, therefore didn't recognise it. Transitions between places was one of their main traits at that age, along with sensory issues. Please do a little reading on autism in girls, just in case. Earlier recognition would have made a big difference for my kiddo, there are so many ways I would have parented differently had I known at the time.

But struggling with transitions is a general problem for many children. It doesn't always mean autism.

Thanks for your insight though.

Yes you are expecting too much of her. She is 4 and this is standard behaviour. 4 year olds don’t do as they are told. They follow your lead. You just need to rise above and hold your boundaries. It will pay off when they are closer to 6.

You need to be firm.
Stop the bribery and appeasements.

It's a pain when you take them out and this happens. My advice is to spend (a lot of) time explaining to your daughter how your outing is going to work. Get into the detail - when the clock shows 11, we are going to get ready to go out. At 1115, we will walk to the soft play and you will be able to play until the clock shows 1330. Then we have to finish playing and go to the cafe for some ice cream.

I used to draw a picture timetable and use an analogue clock. I would give a 10 minute warning, reminding about the next phase of the activity. It helped enormously.

I think that many of us tend to rush our children from one activity to another with little warning. Most transition without protest, but others really dig their heels in. We wouldn't treat other adults like this and really, it's no surprise that our children object. By preparing for transition, we are giving children a modicum of control over a chaotic world and, certainly in my case, it helps with defiant behaviour.

Do you just have time at home to chill and play? It sounds like you are always out all the time. Going out isn’t really a treat if it’s just normal. Kids are constantly being entertained and need time to be bored and figure things out themselves.

does she do this behaviour with other people like grandparents or the other parent or just you?

you can make a visual timetable that you take with you. Like a Rolodex of pictures. Kids can’t tell the time or how long a minute is so having a picture can help.

make it together so she has ownership like when she sees the picture of a house she knows it’s hometime shortly. Then flip it to a sand timer so she can finish off whatever she is doing. Then 5 4 3 2 1 and picture of car or walking etc.

children like attention and you are giving her a big fix of it. They will take negative and it takes time and effort to switch it round

I usually give my dd(4) a count down so, dd we have to leave in 5 minutes, dd we are leaving in 2 minutes, dd it’s time to leave come and put your shoes on. If my dd were to not listen ( which tbf is only occasionally) I’d usually say something along the lines of people that don’t use their listening ears don’t come to fun places, if you continue not to listen then we won’t come to places like this again.

Wow 😮

OP have you read Phillipa Perry's 'the book you wish your parents had read? If not worth a read. There's a chapter early on about why some behaviours get a strong emotional response out of us. I think your 4 year old is behaving exactly like a 4 year old but because when she's behaves this way it reminds you of your past experience with bullies if feels so much more unpleasant for you to deal with.

I don't think you need any different parenting strategies- I think you're doing a brill job/doing everything the rest of us are doing. But I think you need to reflect on why this feels so big/triggering for you.

If it's triggering the same feelings of being bullied, I think you need to try and disassociate those feelings and then this won't bother you so much. Will still be annoying but you'll know it's because they're a 4 year old/it's a phase rather than anything you're doing wrong.

I feel like I wrote this whilst asleep!! Omg I am going through the same with my 4 year old! I was actually reduced to tears yesterday because I was so fed up of being negative and ended up snapping and really shouting at him. Is there a full moon or something?! 😭😅
No but really I totally relate with you and I haven’t got much advice either. I hope and wish for a better day the next day but I feel like I’m in this viscous cycle now where I’m telling him off for something he shouldn’t be doing.
It starts off as me asking him not to do something OR to do something. I will ask in a calm manner 3 or 4 time and I’m being told NO each time. It has to get to me raising my voice and getting cross for him to take action. He’s forever blowing raspberry’s at me if he doesn’t like something so he’s put on the time out step for being rude. I’m honestly at my wits end. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong and feel like a bad mum most of the time (extreme I know but it’s really getting me down and feel I’m struggling with his behaviour - on the flip side I feel like he is behaving like this because of how I react and then I blame myself a lot for the way he is being) it’s hard mum life. So although I have no advice, maybe we can take a little bit of comfort knowing some of us are in the same boat?