to stop DD having holidays?

[PomPomDahlia27]

DH and I stopped family holidays 12 years ago as it was too hard because both DD1 and DD2 have SEN. Since then DH and DD2 have gone on mini breaks around the UK 2 or 3 times a year while I stay at home with DD1. Everyone has been happy with this arrangement.

Now DD2 is a young adult this isn’t working so well because she feels DH doesn’t meet her needs properly in terms of reassurance and controlling her anxiety. He just about covers her physical needs although they frequently bicker because he doesn’t do things the way she likes.

They’ve just come home early from a week away because DD was so stressed and DH couldn’t calm her down.

Looking ahead, what do I do?

DD does have paid carers some of the time but DH doesn’t want to go away on holiday with a carer in tow, and also we would have to pay for their room and meals.

The obvious answer is for me to go with them purely to be the mediator and counsellor etc so we will have the extra the cost plus I don’t actually want to go at all tbh. I don’t like going away, I hate the activities they enjoy so literally I will spend my time following them around just being her carer.

But it seems that if I don’t agree then DD won’t have anymore holidays as it’s just not working with DH anymore.

AIBU to say I won’t go?

It sounds like the support you give with hr anxiety is mainly verbal/talking based?
Is there a reason why this couldn't be done over a video call, so you can support but not actually be there in person?
And you said she has counselling which helps - again could she have a session of this while away via video call, to help support her emotionally?

This.

See the thing is, this is not realistic. Because she living life on earth. She has the problem, she needs strategies and therapy to cope with the problem, not teaching everyone she come across (incl the bus driver/random shopper at Tesco/ little girl in line at the bank with her mom whatever, to not trigger her. Life is triggering mate. You know what is really not helping her and letting her down. Allowing her to not move forward. Tiptoeing around her is letting her down, it's keeping her dependent on the only person who has conditioned herself to not say anything, to live an unrealistic life. Her mom. It's keeping her in the home. Whereas she might be way more independent if she is taught how to deal with life. Not life being taught to deal with her. It sounds harsh but that is the help she needs. That is the help we give all people on therapy. We teach autistic youngsters what to do if they get over stimulated, how to calm themselves down, how to read facial expressions. We don't teach everyone around them not to overstimulate them and to not show emotion

It sounds like when dd is at university and/or with carers you and DH need to make an effort to take some time for the two of you AND both take time individually for yourselves too. Use that time for self care

What’s the relationship between dd1 and dd2 like? Must be very difficult for dd1 too because it sounds like your house operates around not annoying dd2 and that’s clearly not possible based on the sort of examples that you’ve given. Many lesser people would be avoiding contact as a coping mechanism.
Does she have friends at uni ?

This is insightful. OP read up on Transactional Analysis. The 3 main ego states are Child, Adult and Parent. Interactions tend to go Adult to Adult or Parent - Child. One person adopting one state tends to push the other into the paired one - so if you interact as an adult then so will the other person, but if you adopt parent you'll push the other person into child, or vice versa. Do look it up if you're not already aware of it.

The move into more adult - adult relationships is important but it must be very hard to juggling with your daughters' high needs. Examining some of their (and your) recent interactions through a transactional analysis lens might be useful though.

This. Also its not as though the OP is getting to kick back and enjoy the activity, she is there to be a buffer between her husband and her daughter...all the time she is on duty in case something goes wrong....that's not any kind of leisure.

I keep reading the op thinking I am missing something as the responses don't make sense to me either. Are your saying you don't take your daughter in holiday because it's not enjoyable for you? That's just being a parent.

this

I think he is a problem, sorry. He should be able regulate himself. It looks for me like he doesn’t want to make an effort and I wonder if it comes across the same way for your daughter.
He should consider her feelings seriously. It’s easy for him to say: Well, well deal with it when it comes. But your DD is not able to deal with a lot of things on her own, due to her disability her world is much less secure, she relies on things being set up in certain way but there is no guarantee that they will be set up in a certain way. She is old enough to understand problems but she is not mature enough not to care.
However saying this I wonder if their set up is overgrown itself and it’s time to look for something different and send her out with a carer. By the way I don’t think he should have a say in the decision about carer, it’s not for him it’s for DD so only her opinion matters. You probably won’t be able to send her to a big adventure with a carer straight away so there should be some transition period.
I can imagine how frustrating this behavior is for your DD. Our daughter has additional needs and mild anxiety and I have anxiety myself and my DH does stupid unthoughtful comments sometimes as well, it drives me mad, he is doing it in a bit of a thinking way: Well, it might lead to a fire actually…
It took me a while to get to him but he is improving. I think it’s ignorance in a way and lack of understanding.

Yes but the daughter is an adult who the op provides a lot of additional care for and she'd like a break. daughter is a uni student and wants to do the holiday , has another parent who can do it with her if they could work together on it.

There’s a second daughter who isn’t interested in the sorts of holidays that dd2 and her dad enjoys. Dd1 has special needs too and prefers to stay at home rather than travel.

What? Did you miss the part where the OP has two adult children with SEN? Are you in that situation?
I'm exhausted just reading about it.

You can learn to control your anxiety. Speak to her therapist about CBT. She’s taking you all for a ride here and using it as a means of control.

I feel for all of you, but for the first time since I've been on MN I have to say that I don't think your husband is the problem! He must feel like a bag of nerves, never feeling he can say something without a huge backlash.

Does she need personal care when she's away or would she be able to go away with a group?

I can see why you want time to yourself and I can see why your elder daughter has felt like she doesn't have the attention she deserves.

Does your daughter do or take anything to help with her anxiety? I think most of us would really struggle with that level of scrutiny over what we were saying and I really feel for your husband.

I think you are missing the part where she is a burnt out carer of two adults with additional support needs.

If you care for someone with such high levels of anxiety, you really do need a break yourself. That's all the OP is wanting. She's coped with this for over twenty years. Give her a break.

I doubt think the examples listed are just anxiety. They remind me more of PDA profile ASD.

Her anxiety does make her appear to be very controlling.

Reading through the thread wondering something like this too, sounds like she needs people to hear and validate her worries and anxiety, butbif they mention any of there own she 'kicks off' re possible rain/car being OK. I wonder as pp has said if she's stuck in child mode where everyone else has the responsibility for putting her first always and always shielding her from general life?

The anxiety is not unusual for girls her age. They've all had their lives at the threshold of adulthood disrupted by covid. However it's likely fed in her case by being a wheel chair user with less control. She might benefit from cognitive behavioural therapy to stop her destructive thought patterns that lead her to act out. There is likely to be a waiting list. Had she tried meditation or mindfulness to help calm her down?

I feel for your DH and you. Seems like you have spent years tiptoeing round your DD. She needs better coping strategies. Because the world won't bend to suit her.

There are many 21 yo who are physically adults but mentally an emotionally still teenagers.
I was one. I have had mental health issues most of my life. Practically I was a grown up before my time but emotional and mentally behind. I feel that 21 is that crunch point when the coping by avoiding and finding route to move around a mental illness without triggering anxiety or depression ceases to be helpful and it's time to come up with more strategies to teach the younger adult the skills and resources to experience the trigger and climb down on their own or with support.

It sounds like maybe the trip lengths need to be curtailed to a max of 1 night and maybe more daytrips whilst your daughter works on her mental health resilience. Maybe with a holiday in a years time to work towards of they still want to do something together. I would also give dad and your daughter more time alone whilst at home. It would allow you time hopefully to step out of the house and they can learn how to navigate not annoying one another. A skill all young adults and parents need to learn!

This is another key thing about a 21 yo. The relationships between parents and children change. It's no longer just the parents responsibility to keep the peace both parties need to be considerate of the other much more than say a 15yo and adult. I have had a difficult relationship with my mum. It got a lot easier around 25 when I realised we are human and worked around mine and her flaws as a result I was less antagonistic and more warm and fuzzy which she likes. Doing little things like buying her flowers for special dates. I hate flowers, they are pointless and make me sneeze. My mum love flowers and it's a small way to say "I see you". It sounds like neither dad nor daughter are truly "seeing" the other and this is the bit that needs working on and then they can go back to common activities.

I'm retired but used to work in an organisation that cared for people with mental health issues, all sorts self harm/anxiety/eating disorders. One saying I always remember is you have to push the envelope or it closes in. So if you start off with DD being unhappy because a journey is unpredictable you are letting the envelope close in if you ignore the possiblity or pretend it can't happen. I think your husband is right, something might get cancelled because it is raining but if that happens you deal with it, it isn't the end of the world you can go another day and you can find something to do now that isn't affected by the rain, it is a possibility so not unreasonable to recognise that. I don't know your DD but I don't think it is reasonable for 3 of you to be constantly worrying about every word in case it upsets her.

The other thing you have to be realistic about is you won't always be there so she has to learn other strategies, I know that can feel harsh, cruel even but ultimately it is a kindness. I think we all go through that with children but it has just gone on longer with your DD due to her anxiety condition but that doesn't mean it should rule you all.

By the way I'm not saying her anxiety isn't real I just think other people have rights as well and someone needs to help her develop strategies. Ultimately she is a bright girl at university so she can make a decision about the holiday, would she prefer to go and accept dad sometimes says things she doesn't like or would she rather not go. You don't have to make this right for her by doing something you don't want to do.

Absolutely this, you don't have to be a martyr to be a good parent.