to stop DD having holidays?

[PomPomDahlia27]

DH and I stopped family holidays 12 years ago as it was too hard because both DD1 and DD2 have SEN. Since then DH and DD2 have gone on mini breaks around the UK 2 or 3 times a year while I stay at home with DD1. Everyone has been happy with this arrangement.

Now DD2 is a young adult this isn’t working so well because she feels DH doesn’t meet her needs properly in terms of reassurance and controlling her anxiety. He just about covers her physical needs although they frequently bicker because he doesn’t do things the way she likes.

They’ve just come home early from a week away because DD was so stressed and DH couldn’t calm her down.

Looking ahead, what do I do?

DD does have paid carers some of the time but DH doesn’t want to go away on holiday with a carer in tow, and also we would have to pay for their room and meals.

The obvious answer is for me to go with them purely to be the mediator and counsellor etc so we will have the extra the cost plus I don’t actually want to go at all tbh. I don’t like going away, I hate the activities they enjoy so literally I will spend my time following them around just being her carer.

But it seems that if I don’t agree then DD won’t have anymore holidays as it’s just not working with DH anymore.

AIBU to say I won’t go?

This.

I was talking to PomPomDahlia27 not you!!

@alied321

regardless OP doesn’t want to go so she doesn’t have to 🤷‍♀️

Ditto

DH and I had a long chat last night when Dd wasn't here and I feel so sorry for him. He was exhausted from the holiday that was cut short and disappointed that she came back so unhappy.

We've talked about the fact that we need to be mindful of her triggers BUT he is not going to constantly bite his tongue etc and if she thinks he doesn't behave how she wants then it's up to her to decide whether or not to go on holiday or not. We have also agreed to try a shorter break in May to test the waters!

Tonight we will give her 3 options

-Go with dad as usual
-Don't go away at all
-Go and take a carer - he's happy to take the carer along and we will pay the extra cost etc

One thing with DD2 is that she hates making decisions, but we will make it clear that she needs to choose what she wants and we will go along with it. That might seem backwards like we are just going along with her, but it's not, we need her to think things through, make a choice and then see how it plays out.

Personally I wouldn't offer option 1 ie go with dad as usual. They just tried that and dad is unhappy and doesn't want a repeat. I would take that option off the table completely, just offer options 2 and 3, plus ask her what changes SHE thinks could made. If she can't come to a decision in a reasonable timeframe, then there's no holiday this year and plenty of time to make the necessary changes by next year.

Time for her to start taking some responsibility. She's 21, not 12.

Agree. I think dad has suffered enough and so have you. You sound exhausted. Your DD needs to step up now.

Glad you are working this through OP, but I would seriously try to get something that addresses your and DH's needs in too. It'll do no harm to get something for yourselves onto the schedule, and plan DD2's holidays round that.

Agree with the pps. Don’t be scared of difficult conversations. If she kicks off at a mere conversation you’ll have a clear indication that she’s simply not mature enough yet to even have a convo…and yet she is at university and capable of living independently for periods of time.

That said, I think you may be surprised. Frame this as an opportunity for her to step up, show you she is capable and she is mature, sweeten it with these choices being framed as her taking decisions responsibly, she may rise to it. Dont put it punitively, or as a response to her whining/complaining about the slightest thing. Put it to her as one adult to another: these breaks aren’t working for the people involved, we need to make changes - together. Our contribution is selecting these options; your is to pick one.

Tough, send a private message if you don't want to be part of the general discussion.

@Iwasafool 😂

This

Only offer option 2 & 3 as option 1 may be her default esp as she does not like making decisions

Ultimately holidays are supposed to be for fun and enjoyment and it doesn't sound like either of these people are enjoying the current set up. It sounds like your DD would be better of holidaying with a carer if her dad makes her anxious.

This has gotten worse.
”if she wants the holiday, what does she proposes to do to mitigate her anxiety?”

DD wants her carer there to mitigate her anxiety. Which is a fair ask. Most disabled people with carers need them for daily outings, much less a stressful holiday to an unknown place.

But then it’s
“She also needs to respect that he doesn’t want a carer there.”
WTAF? Why? Why does his want to go on holiday without his DD’s carer trump his DD’s disabilities that absolutely require a carer?? Needs always trump wants.

Shouldn’t the Dad be respecting the fact his disabled DD needs her carer to manage her physical needs and her anxiety (mental needs)? It is also very awkward to have an older male father doing intimate personal care on a twenty-something young woman. How humiliating and degrading for her that she is being barred from bringing her carer because her Dad is insisting he can help her with toileting, washing and dressing.

This is trampling all over her rights to privacy in intimate personal care as a disabled adult woman.

“DD she needs to remind herself that not all comments are about her, ie her dad can think he needs to go to bed without it being a criticism of her staying up later. If she wants to go on holiday she has to get along with her dad.”

Except it is a criticism caused by her mum and dad deciding they “won’t have the carers at home”. By refusing the DD her carers, they are taking away her independence to decide on on her own bedtime as an adult by forcing her to be dependent on them, her mum and dad, to assist with her bedtime routine as she is a wheelchair user. The DD has to go to bed before her dad, otherwise there is no one to help her.

She is likely resentful of being forced into such dependence on her mum and dad when while she lives at Uni, she has carers that respect her independence and autonomy as an adult.

I am so happy you have moved away from the “no carers allowed” policy. This is likely all your DD needs.

Come on @Cherryon, "gotten worse"? In OP's last post, one of the options they gave to DD2 was taking a carer on holiday with them.

It had gotten worse at the point where I was in the thread catching up. As you can see, posters were still telling OP it’s all good, your call whether a disabled adult is “allowed” their carer or not, which is ridiculous.

@Cherryon I appreciate your concern for DD but you have misunderstood some of the dynamics.

We don't deny DD access to her carers. She comes home from Uni because she wants a break from her carers and likes having myself and DH caring for her as a break from the professional carers. It's important that she has a break from her regular team so that they don't get fed up with each other, her words not ours. We have funding to pay for carers full time but it is ultimately DDs choice not to use them.

Regarding personal care, DD is not embarrassed or humiliated when she needs assistance from DH. I'm sure a typical young lady would be mortified at her DH handling her like that but DD has been in this position since birth and fortunately is quite pragmatic about it. She's more embarrassed when she gets a new carer who is wiping her bum 5 minutes after meeting her. I am very close to DD and can assure you that she would tell me if there was an issue with that.

So her independence is not being removed and not is she being humiliated by anyone.

WRT the holiday DH hates the idea of taking a carer and we don't think it will actually work. But we have offered the option to DD anyway and she's thinking about it.

This:
”Now DD2 is a young adult this isn’t working so well because she feels DH doesn’t meet her needs properly in terms of reassurance and controlling her anxiety. He just about covers her physical needs although they frequently bicker because he doesn’t do things the way she likes.”

doesn’t line up with this:
“Regarding personal care, DD is not embarrassed or humiliated when she needs assistance from DH.”

I think your first post was more honest wrt how your DD feels about her Dad “wiping her bum” now she is an adult. They aren’t bickering for no reason.
It is humiliating to be a disabled person and to have a “carer” just do things the way they like and not how you want them. Not very caring is it?

Any break from professional carers should be mutual between the DD and her carers, you and her dad are far too involved and are unduly influencing what is not your decision to make. Your DD should not have to worry about how you and her dad will react to her carers accompanying her to visit home or on holiday. I think much of her anxiety revolves around mediating between herself, you, and her dad over the subject of how she wants her personal care done, whether her carers are welcome or not when either of you are around and her having autonomy over her care needs.

@Cherryon I'll answer your points one more time but then I think I will disengage from this conversation.

DD has total autonomy over when she has carers and when she doesn't - the only time there has been debate is whether we should take a carer on holiday in future and we have actually now given her that option.

DH and I are involved in organising DDs care at her request.

DD never feels humiliated about having carers, regardless of who does it. Respect is paramount and i have sacked carers who DD felt were not treating her well enough, cancelling whatever I was doing so that I could instantly step in and take their place. DH has had to leave work to drive up to her twice because a new carer failed and she just wanted one of us there ASSP so we could remove the carer.

DD and DH frequently bicker because he can be so hopeless, leggings twisted, hair not quite flat, earrings upside down, handbag back to front, scarf not tucked in, collar twisted etc These are things which he corrects (mostly) and she nags him because he takes too long and keeps making the same mistakes. nothing to do with being humiliated.

Finding good carers is the hardest bit of my life. Turnover is high, reliability is poor and quality is variable. We have had many bad experiences which have upset us all which is why DD still relies heavily on us. Her choice. I am trying hard to shift her more away from us and onto professionals because it's the way forward for her.

You are mistaken if you think DD gets inferior care from myself and DH and if you think that she is being held back by our interference.

You are also terribly mistaken to assume that having more professional carers is the answer to all DDs problems. We have yet to find a single one who can meet all of her physical and emotional needs and be a companion and slot into her university and social life and cook the food she likes and drive (!) and do her physio and maintain her equipment and do everything exactly the way she wants it done!

Oh, and they all need to clock off before midnight as we don't get funded waking overnight care, just wake-ups, so if she wants a late night she needs us for that too, either to be with her and stay up or to pay for extra care costs.