to stop DD having holidays?

[PomPomDahlia27]

DH and I stopped family holidays 12 years ago as it was too hard because both DD1 and DD2 have SEN. Since then DH and DD2 have gone on mini breaks around the UK 2 or 3 times a year while I stay at home with DD1. Everyone has been happy with this arrangement.

Now DD2 is a young adult this isn’t working so well because she feels DH doesn’t meet her needs properly in terms of reassurance and controlling her anxiety. He just about covers her physical needs although they frequently bicker because he doesn’t do things the way she likes.

They’ve just come home early from a week away because DD was so stressed and DH couldn’t calm her down.

Looking ahead, what do I do?

DD does have paid carers some of the time but DH doesn’t want to go away on holiday with a carer in tow, and also we would have to pay for their room and meals.

The obvious answer is for me to go with them purely to be the mediator and counsellor etc so we will have the extra the cost plus I don’t actually want to go at all tbh. I don’t like going away, I hate the activities they enjoy so literally I will spend my time following them around just being her carer.

But it seems that if I don’t agree then DD won’t have anymore holidays as it’s just not working with DH anymore.

AIBU to say I won’t go?

It very much sounds like the OP’s DD is neurodiverse - the extent of the difficulties and challenges wave a tonne of flags for ASD rather than ‘just anxiety’. In that case, there is a reasonable possibility that the DH is too, and changing his behaviour may not be as straight forward or easy either. It sounds extremely unlikely with the severity of emotional/social/behavioural needs of the girls that they have 2 neurotypical parents. I think I’d be reducing the amount of holidays, and either your DD accepts her father’s limitations and learns to regulate, or you go on holidays somewhere YOU want to go, with a carer, so you still get that respite. Obviously that will financially limit the frequency, which may not be a bad thing.

While I understand it’s not fair the emphasis is on DD to change, rather than her parent, it’s probably the reality of the situation. Not only because SHE is the one wanting the holidays (he doesn’t sound that bothered), but he doesn’t sound like he is willing or able to change. She has to make the decision about her holidays with that information in mind.

You can't all live in terror that she will have a meltdown because one of you says something as innocuous as "I hope it doesn't rain"

It made me really sad to hear that your DD1 just hides away when DD2 is there to avoid the tension.

I think DD2 needs to learn to manage her condition and potentially to move out

So when/how would you get your break? also (and I hate to say this) what will she do when you or DH are no longer able to care for her? If eg you had to be in hospital? Can your husband learn the skills that you have to calm your daughter? How would your DD2 feel about being "abandoned"?

Having volunteered on one of these holidays albeit many years ago the activities were aimed at fun, independence and confidence building.

There was a lot of awareness that these were young people not having normal young person lives and so doing stuff like hanging out with people the same age with the same difficulties was really important. By the end of week one there were always a few couples as well, again with an awareness that these were young adults who didn't get a chance to do this as they always had parents or carers in tow.

At 21 I think it's problem she needs to plan for. The solution isn't for you to have an extra load on your plate.

It would be helpful if she tackled the anxiety with therapy. Asking for constant reassurance isn't a proper solution.

In the short term, maybe a staycation where she has some days out from home with her df?

What about dd1 @PomPomDahlia27?
What about everything she misses out on because she has to walk on eggshells not to upset her sister? How has it got to that stage where she doesn't get holidays and stays at home, and you seem to be in a flap dd2 isn't getting exactly what she wants when she wants, and this includes dictating what and when people speak?

She's an adult now. Let her go away with one of the organisations that do holidays that meet her needs.
Don't forget, you and your DH are a couple. Isn't it time you and your DH started having holidays together, just the 2 of you?

I don't think it's acceptable for 3 people to be held hostage in the way your DD is holding you all hostage.

It's one thing the three of you being restricted by the needs of her disabilities: they are what they are, she's not holding you hostage with this, it's a terrible thing she's having to live with and she's lucky to have your support. But it sounds like she shows no compassion for the impact she has on her parents or sister. I'm not saying she should be grateful and suck it up; I'm saying it cuts both ways. So far, she has a sister who avoids her because she might cause a row, a mother who panders to her because it's easier than standing up to her, and a father who gets shouted at for not being sensitive enough. Where is your DD's sensitivity to everyone else? She can be compassionate whilst also receiving accommodation and support from others. She's old enough now to manage this.

Not being able to say something like "let's hope it doesn't rain!" without fear of reprisal is no way to live. It really isn't. She either puts up, or she loses the tremendous amount of support she receives.

What is the plan for when she finishes uni? Is she going to live independently? Might a short trip on her own help with that?

The obvious answer is for me to go with them purely to be the mediator and counsellor etc ... literally I will spend my time following them around just being her carer.

In a lot of cases: the more you do what you always did, the more that you will get what you already got. This looks as if there could be corners that apply in some ways for all 3 of you.

You don't enjoy the same things, but only you seem to have practiced (had to practice) the knack of not triggering an anxious reaction, and managing one in a suitable way if this does happen.

Your DH has no issue with saying some things innocently, but some things very thoughtlessly, for being the 'tour guide' for an anxious passenger. My Mum has travel anxiety. She would probably end up terrified and stuck in a motorway service station, unable to go anywhere, if someone made a joke about the warning light on a car en route, creating an altogether bigger problem than 'harmless fun' suggests, and digging a much deeper 'anxiety pit' for her own activities overall with this kind of throwaway.

Your DD is of an age where I think she probably does want to do more and have some more independence, but has mostly her immediate family who have been always there and ready to manage emotional and social needs.

To make small steps of progress would be very worth it, but I think you need less familiarity in the behaviour triangle if that's a workable possibility.

You don't enjoy the same things, but only you seem to have practiced (had to practice) the knack of not triggering an anxious reaction, and managing one in a suitable way if this does happen.
Not very healthily though from the thread.

Could they compromise even a bit on the holiday so you can do some things you’d like?

It's difficult because respite for you as her primary caregiver is really important... but I wouldn't want her to miss out on travel because of her disability either.

Is there an option for respite at home? That way you can still rest but she is able to travel? I think not liking the activities is just something to suck up as a parent, as harsh as that might sound.

That stood out to me too. Ten fairly diverse activities and you don't like a single one of them? I mean, orienteering wouldn't be my cup of tea but I love the theatre. It's hard to imagine not liking any one of these activities.

Also, continuing to “manage” (you’re not really managing, you’re actually enabling them and allowing them to go unchecked) your DD’s anxieties in a way that she doesn’t have to confront them or learn to deal with them herself, isn’t setting her up for a successful life without you. How will she find a life partner or support network (that isn’t paid for) who will do for her what a mother does? She won’t. Nobody will put up with that. She needs to learn this emotional independence. She needs to forge friendships and relationships where she doesn’t rule the roost.

You seem to be blaming your DH a fair bit.
Not the same situation but my with my ASD son, DH and I have a similar debate and we also have this dilemma : do we prevent situations that will trigger a meltdown or do we let them occur as otherwise he’ll never learn how to cope.

IMHO, considering your DD’s age, I would tell her that she can choose to go on holiday with DH but if she does it she has to accept that he won’t want to talk about feelings that often and he will make innocent remarks that might make her anxious. Put the ball in her camp: if she wants the holiday, what does she proposes to do to mitigate her anxiety?
She also needs to respect that he doesn’t want a carer there.

@PomPomDahlia27 In all your posts you have not mentioned the needs of dd1! if you were to go with dd2 and dh who would look after dd1? why cant dh look after dd1 for a change and you go with dd2/ you just need to suck it up when you dont enjoy things which she likes. on the other hand dd2 needs to learn that the universe does not revolve around her and other people also have needs too!! does dd1 ever get taken on holiday???

I don’t usually weigh in these topics just because I don’t have a lot of experience with them. But it seems from your posts that the time away with her dad is probably a good thing for your daughter.

She gets a lot of support for her anxiety at home (probably too much if you’re all walking on eggshells) so being in an environment with her dad where she both is spending time and having fun with him and having her feelings and anxiety challenged a bit is good for her.

I’d leave them to it. If he comes back and says he can’t take it anymore or she says the same then I think that falls in the natural consequences category for both. Then you take the same time and get away yourself or with your other daughter to recharge.

I'm not sure what the answer is here but it's certainly not you going on holiday with them.

You can't pour from an empty cup and it sounds like you're giving, giving, giving to everyone and there's very little left for you. Your DDs depend on you, you need to take the necessary time to make sure you don't crumble (or at the very minimum, at least don't add to your stress load with a holiday you will hate). Your and your DH need to work together to ensure that you both get a break from caring every now and again and a chance to recharge. This will benefit you both but also your DDs.

When you get to a certain stage of physical and emotional burnout, all activities requiring more than a minimal level of engagement are a chore. You literally want to be left alone to stare at the TV/a wall. I suspect the OP is closer to this than she is necessarily saying or realises.

OP, when you say you talk your daughter down from her anxiety, how do you do this? Do you use/reinforce the tools she is putting in place with her counsellor to help self manage her symptoms? Or do you just indulge it and inadvertently reinforce her anxiety mechanisms by validating that they are reasonable feelings and not a systemic overreaction to normal everyday events? Your DH sounds like he’s on the other end of the scale dismissing her feelings entirely, although I agree he should be able to say totally normal things like comment on the weather.

It sounds like both you and your DH could do with understanding what the therapist recommends, for different reasons. Eg if your daughter is following a CBT approach for anxiety then you could learn to ask questions like therapists do, eg have some stock questions like what are you feeling, what are you worried about, why is that, is that a helpful thought, what does that feel like, etc. Something that stops her spiralling and brings her back to a place where she feels she can deal with these thoughts.

You can ask your daughter to ask her therapist what resources they recommend for you so you are working together on this.

Would it be helpful for DD to have a scheduled call with her carer once a day when she is away ? Could that help with providing the level of reassurance she requires while still allowing her to holiday with DH ?

I do feel a bit for your DH in all of us, sounds more like work than a holiday.

I keep trying to explain to DH that you can’t just tell him to stop feeling the way he feels. It’s like telling someone with epilepsy (DH)to stop having fits.

Your dc can work on his anxiety. He can learn to recognize and describe all of this feelings, then he can learn how those feelings physically feel in his body as they are building, then what thoughts go along with the feelings, then how to physically calm his calm his body and finally what alternative thoughts he can consider.
It isn't quick or easy but it is possible to address anxiety.

She needs to learn to ride the wave of her anxiety. Anxiety is an emotion that she created in her head, just like any other emotion or feeling. Remember that feelings aren't facts, and that the anxiety will reduce in time, even faster if she can distract herself somehow by practicing a breathing technique or a relaxation technique.

Constantly giving reassurance obviously does not work to reduce anxiety. If it did, you would only have to do it once. The best way to help in this scenario is to refuse to give the reassurance but to remind and support with the distraction techniques instead. 'No, stop it, we're not doing this, do your XYZ technique' (Such as count backwards from 100 in sevens; rule of 333 for anxiety; breathing exercises; mindfulness; relaxation) She will get better at distracting herself out of anxiety the more she does it, and the trick is to start practicing these techniques when NOT feeling anxious, so that you are good at them when you DO feel anxious and need them to help you.

HTH

What is the long term plan for when neither of you can provide the supporting role? Now is a good time to start transitioning towards that, surely?