DD angry at mature student for inappropriate email

[KeepCalmPlease]

NC just in case.
Daughter is angry this eve as a mature student on her course has mistakenly replied all to the class, instead of just her lecturer. In the email, apparently they brag about finishing their assigned work early, and then flirt about a shared hobby with lecturer. Daughter wants to bring this up formally with the institution along with other friends of hers. I haven't seen the email so I'm not sure what "flirting" is but I suspect the mature student, being older, just shares a hobby with lecturer (and likes being teachers pet).
My advice to her is just ignore the mistake, keep your head down and make sure your own work is done. AIBU?

I'm not sure why DD is so exasperated by this. I'm sure many emails fly about all day in academia.

I even wonder if it was a plausible deniable 'mistake' to show off to the rest of the class. It doesn't matter in any case, it's definitely a shrug and move on.

If she carries this on today, as in the WhatsApp gossiping, I might have a chat with her that bullying doesn't end at school.

The older student is an outsider because of their age, she and her peers are whipping up fuss over a Cc'ing mistake and accusing them of trying to cheat on the course.

I'm not saying go in mob handed on this angle but if she's still going on, she needs to examine her motives. Is she enjoying ganging up against someone? I'm sure this person would be very hurt to know they were the subject of such messaging all night. I'm a mature student and it can be very isolating.

It might be helpful if you could ask to see the email. What you've described is not evidence of wrong doing but maybe there's more to it in the email....otherwise I can't see what's got her so riled.

If I recieved an email at work that wasn’t for me I’d be asked to delete straight away. I fact think my company email signature says ‘if you are not the intended recipient…’.

1. What exactly is she complaining about? A miss sent email? The 'flirty' tone? The fact this student has already completed her course work? And what kind of resolution is she after?

2. the mature student has likely spent time in the work force, it's probably been a while since she left school, she may well have more in common than with her lectures that the other students. She could perhaps relate to them more as co-workers than teachers. This has probably horrified DD and Co who see the lecturers as teachers.

3. this isn't school. The uni likely won't give a fuck about a flirty tone from a mature student to a lecturer. Even if they were to have a relationship they wouldn't be doing anything wrong as long as it was declared.

4. I would imagine the mature student is working harder and taking it more seriously than DD and her classmates. She has given up for more to be there. And I suspect the class mates main issue is jealousy that this women is doing far better than them.

Have a chat with your DD about growing up, focusing on her own work, and learning how to develop relationships. She clearly needs it.

@SnobblyBobbly but your situation is totally different and as such the experience is NOT similar- you had proof there was favouritism, OP's daughter is pissed off because the lecturer and the mature student dare to have a hobby and she is imagining that the lecture m a y favour the student because they finished the assignment earlier. It's a bit ridiculous. If there is a nest of vipers, I imagine this to be the group of students trying to report another student for sending an email which as far as we know contains nothing shocking.

"Dear University, our lecturer has a hobby! Push them back into their office!".

Your DD sounds like a trouble causer.

I'm sick of flirting being criminalised, most of the time it's totally harmless. Yes maybe it's inappropriate between student and lecturer but they're both mature adults and it's likely to be just a bit of banter.

I’ve been a student at various ages. Most recently I was a friend of one of the lecturers before starting the course & we had worked together professionally & quite closely over several years.

The ‘brag’ of finishing early may have been a surprise at being organised (I never finished early, do if I did I might have commented in surprise at myself. It wouldn’t be a brag more a comment on how late I usually am ) & maybe the ‘flirting’ is just that they already knew each other.

Your daughter sounds really immature. Maybe tell her that is how any complaint (about what??) will come across.

I have 2 in uni and 2 whom have left within the last 6 years. Stuff like this I would have 100% been told about it would be "the gossip of the week." Week after it would be how annoying another lecture was and week after this how fab a third lecturer was.

Imo it shows op has a close and loving relationship with her dd. A good thing.

Op I think sleeping on it is a good idea. Hopefully, she has calmed Down this morning and realises taking it further won't aid her in anyway.

Without seeing the actual text it’s difficult to comment but either way she needs to let it go and concentrate on her study work.

If it was my child I would tell her to keep her sticky beak out of it and concentrate on her own affairs and grow the hell up. Id be saying there will be lots of things that will happen in adult life that she won't like but it'll have absolutely nothing to do with her. I'd say a life hack is to mind your own business most of the time except in extraordinary events.

It sounds like she needs to be told this and also told that whinging that things aren't fair make her look ridiculous.

I remember when I was at uni (many years ago) another student being weirdly angry that I’d finished an assignment a couple of weeks before it needed to be handed in, that’s just the way I am, I don’t leave things to the last minute.

Your daughter needs to leave this alone, the mature student has already been humiliated by their mistake and now being discussed on WhatsApp, that’s punishment enough. What does she hope to gain from complaining, for the mature student to be told off for ‘flirting’ (which they will just deny anyway, whether it’s true or not).

This is a good lesson for your daughter that sometimes in the workplace it’s better to keep your head down than make a tit of yourself even if you think you’re right.

This - I'd ave replied (to that one student) "Did you mean to "reply all?" ". And let that be the end of it

No, she shouldn’t as she will come across as vindictive and petty. The lecturer might be like me. I didn’t really know who my students were unless they were specialising in one particular course. I had chatty emails from students who I would struggle to put a face to. One of my colleagues had a formal complaint made against her. The whole thing was a fantasy made up by a student that she had taught a couple of times in a vast lecture hall. It took her ages to work out who the student was. Another colleague tried to avoid undergraduate students as much as possible because he thought they caused too much trouble. I don’t know if it is because students are used to school teachers knowing them very well, but a few students do struggle with the lack of personal attention at university. Your daughter should focus on her own life and her degree. Making other people’s lives worse will not improve her own.

I'd explain to her that

• people are allowed to make mistakes - she will in her time and how would she feel if someone made formal complaints for genuinely small and insignificant mistakes? No one is impacted by it.
• grad students have a very different relationship with tutors than undergrads - and they've earned it! They are older, they may well be heading into academia and teaching alongside their tutors. A chattier email reflects this.
• It's not the most desirable trait in a person to constantly look for reasons to complain, blame and accuse others and escalate miniscule issues. She is the only one who will come out badly from it, unless there was clear evidence of gross moral turpitude!
• people express themselves in different ways. What she sees as bragging may be just joy. E.g. If one of my grad students emailed me and said: 'Yippee I finished that extended essay with three days to spare so I'm off to see a play tonight, want to join me?' I'd see nothing wrong in it.

If they said: 'Get me - I am so much harder working and clever than your BA thickos so of course my essay is in early, let's dance all night at a rave, Prof,' I'd think that inappropriate. But apart from maybe a quiet word, I'd think having accidentally sent it to everyone was humiliation enough.

I’m a lecturer and sometimes get arse kissing emails from (usually) mature students trying to be overly matey. I see right through them and inwardly roll my eyes while remaining professional.

Just because the lecturer has received an email like that does not mean they have a special relationship and certainly doesn’t mean they’re getting better marks. For a start work will be internally and externally moderated.

so really there’s nothing to report. The lecturer has done nothing wrong. The student has made a tit of themselves but that’s not against the rules sadly.

As many have said, I will be astonished if the university moderation system does not involve blind marking of assignments, therefore offering no opportunity for ‘extra marks/ favouritism’. That’s how it has worked in every university I have ever attended including the current one where I am doing my MSc. Strongly recommended she checks this as she is going to look silly when this is the university response.

Again, as others have said, mature students regularly have a more ‘friendly’ relationship with tutors as they may be the same age, have a developed enthusiasm for the subject due to overcoming more barriers to be there, common reference points with the tutor, real life experience of the subject area etc.

would recommend that she winds her neck in really.

There are some pretty nasty assumptions by you and daughter.

Sounds to me like your daughter is jealous and aware that she’s shirking off.

When I was a mature student (48) most of my essays I did my own topic at post grad which was always agreed by the lecturer.
So it would be obvious whose essay it was on marking.

A shared holiday sounds inappropriate though.

I’d be asking:
what rule is being broken by this email?
what do you want to happen?
are you happy for your own WhatsApp messages to come to light in the investigation?

It's probably anonymous marking so even if Ryan Gosling was my student he wouldn't get any extra marks!

I think asking your daughter (non-confrontationally) what she hopes to achieve by a complaint might be quite helpful for her to think through her reasoning.

The University cannot ban students from contacting lecturers.

The University cannot control what students send to lecturers.

As long as marking is anonymous and moderated the process is in place to ensure this won't affect the mature student's mark, so that can't be the issue...

Does she want the reply all function turned off on the VLE so she doesn't get unwanted emails?

Does she want the mature student to be 'told off'? Is that an appropriate way to treat adults? Isn't the embarrassment of replying all enough?

Newsflash for your DD : She's in the adult world now and is responsible for herself and how she is perceived. People get on in life by forming good relationships, she should start doing that too. Oh, and nobody gives a shit if her feelz are a tiny bit hurt by the way someone else conducts themselves.