Why shouldn’t life be made easier for pregnant women/mothers?

[Duckwithnobill]

Read quite a few threads here lately that have really shown vitriol towards advancements in working conditions, pay and other adaptations that make life easier for pregnant women and women with young children, which is bizarre to say the least on a parenting forum.

A couple of examples being resentment at the increased ability to work from home or more flexibility from employers around attending meetings/commuting in late pregnancy. I’ve seen women that take advantage of these enhancements be labelled as workshy or as the reason women aren’t respected in the workplace. Full disclosure I am pregnant and my employer has been great at accommodating my pregnancy presumably because they want me to return after maternity leave!

Then there’s the whole debate around P&C parking spaces, where some posters seem genuinely angry that there might be small conveniences put in place to make life a little bit easier for parents.

AIBU to find this attitude quite baffling? Surely improvements to the way pregnant women/mothers are treated can only be a good thing? Or should we all just suffer and struggle?

Also it’s just another convenient way to hate women.

And to expect women with children to put their needs below those of everyone else, to ensure they aren’t deemed ‘entitled’

What does she sound very bitter about?

It's a lifestyle choice and it's a choice that leads to caring responsibilities. As a functioning society we should support people who care for the next generation, or indeed care for the older generation. Do you think people with children actively enjoy having to take days off to take care for their ill children, for example? Who do you propose should do that, as I'm sure you'd complain if parents didn't do it (it is their responsibility after all, if no one else is offering to help...)

Some of you would have been delighted with the attitude of an ex-manager of mine. I asked to go term time only and her immediate response was “Why? You don’t have children!”

As though there couldn’t be any other reason I’d rather not be at work 🙄.

I agree to an extent although as only the mother can be pregnant and give birth there will always be to some extent greater need for consideration for the woman? My DH will be sharing parental leave but for example couldn’t have dealt with my morning sickness for me or commuted to my job when I had to stop due to PGP!

Fwiw, I agree with @MidnightPatrol. Sneering at "entitled mothers" and bitching about "lifestyle choices" on a website that's literally called Mumsnet...is goady.

Whatever the reasons for having or not having children, bitterness will eat you up inside.

The only time I've seen issues are work (as above) and public transport.

I'm childfree and I don't think it's unreasonable for parents and pregnant women to be given flexibility but flexibility should be afforded to all staff. All too often, it's expected that the childfree will pick up the slack/cover weekends/work late/not take popular leave dates. Obviously, that's not the fault of the parents but can lead to resentment.

Public transport wise, I've often seen that those seen to be able bodied need to move for pregnant women or families with young children. I often get targeted for this and I have a stick when using buses or trains. It can get your back up as it immediately puts you on the defensive, it feels more of a directive to move than an ask a lot of the time.

I think, in the early days, with the sleep deprivation etc, small things like not getting a p&c parking space can seem massive. But once you've experienced it a few times you realise its not so bad. But by then you've had an online moan and came across badly. Then, you might experience other things in life that help you understand other people, not just parents, could do with wider parking spaces, nearer the shop etc.

The workplace things... People want things to be fair. If they feel a parent is doing half a job, they get resentful. It can be a tricky balance.

@Duckwithnobill Oh totally, I meant to put the disclaimer on it about not applying in the context of pregnancy at all but, somewhat ironically, my small child distracted me!

But who will pay your pension when you retire if no one had children? And who would look after you in old age if there was no one younger than you fit and able? Doctors/nurses, if no one had children because of lifestyle choices then we would all be in a slight pickle

Yeah, I've been told by various establishments to use the P&C spaces when I need the extra space. I don't have a blue badge so they tell me to park there. To a parent needing a space, I probably look like I'm just being a lazy mare!

And it's been made clear by the moderation team that the childless and child free have as much right to post as anyone else.

But it's not one size fits all.
Some working women who are pregnant might not be up to travelling for 4 hours. Some might.
The problems and kickbacks begin when every pregnant woman "can't" or "won't".
It actually sets equality back rather than helping.

Of course it's great that there are adjustments for the women who need them.

The key being "who need them".

Ah I'm so glad you made this post OP, I completely agree. Pregnancy takes a massive physiological toll even before thinking about the many possible complications. It can be temporarily disabling for many. We don't expect someone with a broken leg to get on with it - why should pregnancy be any different? It in't sexist or admitting weakness to acknowledge this - this is why obstetrics exists as its own branch of medicine and why healthcare professionals as so cautious with pregnant women.

Furthermore, babies both in and out of utero are vulnerable. We should protect vulnerable members of society, that is what being civilised is. This is why P+C spaces and seats on public transport are important. It is nothing to do with deeming those with children better or more deserving. It is just looking after those who need looked after.

However, posters on here often seem to forget / ignore / disagree with the above because they didn't get (or need) special treatment or because children are a 'lifestyle choice' (or, I suspect, because they disapprove of women sticking their neck out to request support and possibly disagree with anyone getting something they don't have). The lifestyle choice crew also seem blissfully ignorant to the fact that we do actually need some people to make that lifestyle choice to, you know, keep going as a society...

Not comparable at all your parents are not your dependents.

As long as adjustments to accommodate pregnancy don’t negatively impact other staff members, I don’t really care. Everyone’s got life stuff going on.

And who do you think will be propping up the economy and caring for you when you are old. Other people children.

What makes you think every pregnant woman ‘can’t’ or ‘won’t’?

If work places are smart about their thinking they soon realise making adjustments leads to more productive work and that's not limited to pregnant women.

Reasonable adjustments for medical conditions and flexible working if caring responsibility then actually your workforce tends to stick somewhere longer.

My work were brilliant when I was pregnant and my work risk assessments all said not to travel past 27 weeks with DS1 due to severe PGP, with DS2 due to covid and office risk. Due to these adjustments I worked right up to labour, my work were happy they didn't need to bring in cover sooner and I was able to make the most out of mat leave.

Generally I find people who moan haven't actually bothered to explore their works policies or have those discussions with their managers. My productivity is high (our work review workloads every few weeks) and has increased since having another reasonable adjustment agreed (I have a long term health condition now).

I think that part of it comes from the current generation complaining about the current conditions and how not enough is done without any acknowledgement of how much harder it was for previous generations. They act like they were the only generation to work and bring up children. So often you hear that mothers used to stay at home but when I was at school in the 80's neither my mother nor any of my friends mothers didn't work. they did part time jobs, the worked evenings and weekends, or early morning cleaning. Yes things could be better but they have also been much worse.

Whereas I, also a childfree person, think you don’t have to be such an absolute bloody twit.

Maternity leave is a good thing, I’m fine with my taxes being used for that.

@Haydenn I agree that this is the issue. So often child free people are expected to cover for those with children being off or leaving early. It creates a lot of resentment

“I managed without those things, so so should you.”

“Life is made too easy for snowflake mothers and their offspring nowadays.”….

Times are moving on all the time. The complainers will have had comforts and conveniences that women decades before them didn’t have so they should pipe down and shut up.

Errr this. There is a vibe of “l found it really hard so so should you!”. I really don’t like this. Why deliberately make life hard for yourself or someone else. I found being pregnant with twins at 43 to be hard, not helped by my managers being super reluctant to do risk assessments (these are legally required!) or take my work load off js before maternity (my c section was booked in for sometime and twins do not go to 40 weeks -especially if you are 43 🤣). Wouldn’t want this for someone else.

My mum almost seems affronted by modern developments. Saying l have lots of “help” from these things, well l did have twins and went back to work full time. She did neither of these things. Is it so bad to have a safe chair for your child to sit in for the bath?! Or get a subsidy from the government for childcare (she got free childcare rather than invoices for £1,500 a month, for only 2 days a week)

That’s really an employer issue though not the fault of the pregnant woman.

Employers trying to cut cost by not covering adequately!