To exclude one child from family holiday

[Mama1209]

I have a strained relationship with my eldest daughter. She basically lives with her grandparents. I try my hardest to make her feel loved, wanted & included. We have booked a summer holiday abroad this year. 6 of us in total so it’s not cheap. We have just been on a weekend break and she was a nightmare! Shouting and swearing calling me names in public etc. I don’t get it because she was really looking forward to it. It’s as soon as she doesn’t get her own way she kicks off. Now me and my husband will work hard all year to pay for this summer holiday and I don’t want her to ruin it for us and the other kids! AIBU to cancel her off? I feel like she would never forgive me and it would ruin any chance of building a stronger relationship so I’m torn!

OP has already done a lot of that.

Yeah you are right, I've seen now that op has said about that further up thread. But I still feel that her dds behaviour is to do with getting attention/feeling important and I think exclusion wouldn't help matters. I think I'd still take her along even if you know she may be tricky.

Am I getting a bit confused with the time line.

You married first husband and had your dd

Then he went to jail and died by the time she was 3-4 years old.

By the time she was 5 years old you had met, married and given birth to her step brother

She starts to stay over with grandparents at weekends. Presumably during the week she was in school and there was a set routine that meant there wasn’t really any days out or prolonged family time where she spent time with both you her step father and step brother

Why did you not insist that she spent the majority of weekends with you as part of her family

Then you get pregnant again when she is 14 years old.
At that point she moved permanently in with her gps
Presumably Covid stopped you going away in those few years

And then you decide to go on a family weekend away. Without having resolved the reasoning behind why she has replaced you with the gps.

Sorry if I missed it but were these gps, your dm and df. Or were these gps who raised your abusive exh.

Have you ever spent regular time with her, just her and you going to places where you can talk and find out about each other’s lives, hopes and dreams.

I think having a successful relationship with your children as they get into teens and adulthood involves you having regular time with them on a one to one basis to really get to know them. Sometimes children say or do things that are really cries for attention and all the one on one times you put in are there for you to recognise when things aren’t going right for them and they aren’t able to find the words for the feelings and situations that are overwhelming them.

@PenguinLord I question how often that happened. A mum with a four children who include a baby/toddler and a14 plus teenager who lives with her grandparents is not going to have much space to spend 1-1 time with any teenager.

Sounds like you are doing as much as you possibly can, I really wish the best.
Perhaps as suggested enforce a mutual hobby together as that could really help you heal just by experiencing something uniquely for only the two of you so you have something that is consistently shared. And doesn’t risk excluding the siblings if you choose a grown up hobby that is too old for them to join. Perhaps if you enjoy it could become a family thing in the future when she is older and emotions have all regulated.

With all due respect, this is not my CV you are reading. I am under no obligation to give you a timeline of my relationship or justify them. However, if you care to read back through the thread, you will realise we have had many family trips and holidays both 1-1 and as a family.

Thanks. Today she rang me upset about a friend and we really had a lovely conversation and she wants to meet up to talk about the weekend etc so I’m hopeful. Definitely took on board a lot from this thread. Good and bad. X

Sometime we have to be cruel to be kind. People who behave like this need to be made aware of the consequences of their actions, and sometimes that is missing out on the nice things.

She may have an underlying cause but most of the time people are able to hold their behaviours when required, and if not then natural consequences is people don't want to be around them and ruin their time. You tried to take her away for weekend and has showed she can't control herself therefore she is not able to join the next one.

Also you will find lots of people trying to be armchair psychologists who don't have the full background but feel the need to spout lots of judgemental statements. Take what has been said and have a think about it all. How you feel when reading the feedback, does it align with the truth and also what you really want as an outcome. And use that as your decision maker.

But don't feel pressured into doing something detrimental to everyone's else feelings, experiences or opportunities. One person can't be expected to rule everyone's experiences and feelings.

@Gunkle1 FFS she is 17 years old!!
Your reaction is so harsh.

Exactly, she is 17 not 7. I am not saying she should be excluded from the family but should be impacted about her behaviour.

Behaviour like this needs to be stopped before adulthood or she will not succeed. Then the family and her will be blamed for her behaviour of she acted this way in society.

She has had a lot of trauma in her life. She is not just being naughty.

You miss the point. I was talking about regular one to one time not one off holidays or trips or one off 1-1 times. Something mundane and regular such as every other Saturday you go to the local mall, wander round the shops and have lunch. Or Sundays you go for a walk for a couple of hours and sit and talk at a regular spot and have a packed lunch. As well as her interacting in the mundanity of family life like eating dinner together even a few times each week
One off holidays to Disney or trips away are not where you are going to get those conversations that would head off this type of behaviour. Phone calls to talk about the recent trip don’t count as they are a reaction not an action

How will she “not succeed”? Succeed at what?

believe me, strict discipline is not the way to manage a bereaved teen. The behaviour is expressing her feelings- bottom line is see how badly I can act, then you’ll leave me/reject me too.

teens don’t have the words or emotional maturity to voice their feelings. It comes out as actions.

i’m 50 now and it’s only relatively recently I can see that all my shitty teen behaviour, every time an adult disapproved of something, was seen as rejection, and was a result of my grief.

grief I was told I should be over because kids are resilient, they get over things. So I just thought I was a horrible kid that nobody liked.

stopping the behaviour with discipline just meant I stopped engaging completely. That led to “failure” as teachers, no one could get through to me.

YOU miss the point you mentioned trips which is what I responded to. I do r need to justify myself or my parenting to you thank you very much

There's a lot of background information coming out here, O/P.

I've been in your daughters position with the anger, from around the age 14 onwards when my Mum met my step-dad, but they never had any children together.

I was really angry and jealous about this relationship. I never knew my real Dad. Unfortunately, you're her nearest and dearest which means you're the one she is going to lash out at and hurt. It's not condoning it, but it's clarity on why she is doing it.

Her dad was abusive to her Mum
He went to prison
Mum met someone else
Mum had another baby
Dad died

That's been your eldest daughter's life. She shouldn't have had to go through any of that. She's still a teenager processing a lot of traumatic and confusing feelings. She's probably feeling rock-bottom and needs anger management lessons, and coping mechanisms. At the same time (I'm a counsellor) - I'm not making any diagnosis - It sounds like she needs to be assessed for cognitive disabilities and mental health illness. Aggression can be BPD, Bi-polar, schizophrenia, Autsim/Aspergers, Anxiety, Stress, OCD. A combination of many things.

When I was her age, I would also call my Mother many awful things, but my parents were also abusive toward me when dynamics changed.

I know it's easy to say, 'Don't award her bad behaviour with a holiday', but it's not really bad behaviour - It's mental health issues manifesting in lashing out. She's hopefully not taking any drugs (weed can also cause aggression in some people), she's not stealing, being physically violent, not damaging anything? It's just the verbal abuse?

Take her on holiday and every time she lashes our, pull her into a tight hug and tell her you love her. Keep doing it. Fight for her because she needs someone to fight for her, to hold her up while she self-destructs. It's going to be hard work and you're going to want to snap at her, but don't. Stay calm, be Mum. Fight for her.

Actually the trolls who post on mumsnet are more likely to be teenagers than fat old men. You lost my sympathy with that comment.

Gunkle1 Not all bad behaviour is actually bad behaviour

Bad behaviour is a way of expressing that things are not right

Bad behaviour can be a cry for help

Bad behaviour can be a way of expressing disappointment in those around them

Just disciplining without understanding the why the need for the bad behaviour is going to do more harm than good.