To exclude one child from family holiday

[Mama1209]

I have a strained relationship with my eldest daughter. She basically lives with her grandparents. I try my hardest to make her feel loved, wanted & included. We have booked a summer holiday abroad this year. 6 of us in total so it’s not cheap. We have just been on a weekend break and she was a nightmare! Shouting and swearing calling me names in public etc. I don’t get it because she was really looking forward to it. It’s as soon as she doesn’t get her own way she kicks off. Now me and my husband will work hard all year to pay for this summer holiday and I don’t want her to ruin it for us and the other kids! AIBU to cancel her off? I feel like she would never forgive me and it would ruin any chance of building a stronger relationship so I’m torn!

OP you’ve had a grilling and I feel for you. It sounds like you’re trying to balance being supportive while setting boundaries. A young person who had experience trauma does need boundaries. They need consistency and to understand what to expect every time.
I don’t think there is a simple solution to the holiday and I think you’d benefit from professional advice and support. You don’t want to unintentionally isolate your daughter and damage your relationship.

Your posts focus a lot of your perception of you daughters behaviour, with very little detail of your own. Others have said you need to address the underlying reasons for your daughters behaviour, overall she seems very insecure about your love for her, which is manifesting in poor, attention seeking behaviour. You are the adult and parent, so you are expected to take the time to decode and work through the drivers of these situations. For example, how do you think she would feel to read some of these posts? Pretty heartbroken I'm guessing?

most 17 year olds would not wanna go on holiday with their parents , siblings etc

it would be uncool for them

they’d rather go with mates

I think you dismiss her fathers death a bit too much.
It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t do
He was her one and only dad.

You can’t define how long someone grieves or how they grieve or even when the grief actually hits you.
There isn’t a set amount of time. Even after 6 years. You might have moved on but she clearly hadn’t.

I think it was convenient for you that she had her gps to disappear to as she was and still is the problem in your life and instead of spending time working through everything and giving her space to vent. and maybe some grief counselling it was less hassle to just let her go.

Then you organise a family weekend away and without working through her issues you just expect it to be all sunshine and happiness.

I think most people could forecast how the weekend away would go with some accuracy.

How much time do you spend with her every week. Just you and her on your own. Do you visit her and stay in or do you go out anywhere even if it is a few hours on the local mall trying on clothes and getting lunch or a coffee

Project much?

I mean, that is quite the fantasy story. facepalm

Had you bothered to actually read and comprehend the OP's posts, you would realize that your timeline is not even close to accurate. facepalm

See, the thing is at certain age DC should not/do not have a choice on a matter re moving to grandparents. It's not the same as 30 years old chosing to move.
That was the point where the mother likely feeled relieved, I.e.difficult kid out of the door (masked by "she chose to go"). Instead of sticking to it and getting the blended family work properly.

Do I think it will strain your relationship further to not invite her? Yes.
Do I think you should not bring her based on what you’ve said because you want a peaceful holiday? Also Yes.
sometimes you can’t have it both ways. perhaps as an alternative, you could take her somewhere else to try and heal your relationship like a mummy daughter weekend.

I think because of your own bad experience with her father I get the impression that you think that her feelings are the same as yours.

Without adding any of your own experiences or opinions of her father, how much uninterrupted time did you and her spend talking about him after his death.

I think communication and the bond between child and parent has all but broke down.

I think you were too busy playing happy families with your new children to realise that your dd was hurting and you were ignoring her feelings and the only way she could display her cry for help was to act up.

Very telling about it all starting when you got pregnant years after her fathers death.

Just wondering if before your pregnancy, your relationship was as strong as you thought.

I always remember my mother telling me that she was pregnant with my half sister and the first thought that popped into my head was why she was having another child when she couldn’t look after the child she already had

My mother thought we had a great relationship but we never did anything together ever and even when we planned to I would find she had invited the rest of the family

Teenagers can be a bloody nightmare. My mantra for those years was "your child needs you most when you like them least" (picked up from mumsnet actually but really resonated with me).

If she wants to go I think you have to take her but more counselling before you do and consequences for any bad behaviour when you are there.

She is being abusive to you. She is 17, not 7, she knows she is being abusive. Teach her women dont have to take abuse from anyone, even their children, by always imposing consequences. Tell her she is loved, her behaviour is not.

She’s 17 and shouts and swears at you while you’re on a holiday that you’ve paid for. I would definitely go on holiday without her, she’s almost an adult! We make far too many allowances for vile behaviour. Go on holiday with DH and your other DCs and don’t feel bad about it OP. It’s a waste of money if she will ruin it for you all. Sometimes we need to do what is best for the rest of the family

You’re not unreasonable to want an enjoyable holiday with no stress.
However, having been there myself, although much older than your daughter was - the death of a parent is not something you recover from. Ever. I was lucky enough to have a very supportive remaining parent, and wider family and no new siblings/family to negotiate. But it’s always there even now and I’m probably older than you OP.

I’d also wonder why you allowed grandparents who managed bring up a less than desirable son to take over your DD’s parenting. I’ve seen this in our community - a drug addled criminal daughter of inadequate parents had a child, and then when she inevitably had the child taken from her care, the grandparents took over and unfortunately the grandchild is now following much the same path as their mum…its very sad. But unrealistic to expect grandparents who were poor parents in their 30’s to be any better in their 60’s.

She did get moved to the grandparents while struggling with ops pregnancy.

Op said it herself.

As for the rest of it, I never gave a timeline at all.

Also why keep the fact he went to prison secret.

Are you sure she doesn’t know he went to prison and that is just another thing she feels that you remain closed off in discussing

Absolutely every 17 year old that I know still goes on holiday with their family - it would be really bizarre behaviour to leave them behind. DD and her friends are all 19/20 and still going away with family, why shouldn’t they be?

My nearly 19 year old DD comes away with us -we go on holiday this year in June and she is excited. We have a great relationship and enjoy each others company. She's been away with her mates already this year. My 21 year old niece also still goes with her parents occasionally and isn't the slightest bit embarrassed by it. Just asked and all her friends go away with their families. I think the "embarrassing parent" stage is more tween/early teen than 17 year olds. Most near adults have matured out of that. I'd been full time working a year at 17 and can't remember being remotely bothered about being seen with my parents, they were just other adults.

Not the point of the thread, but to all those reporting their adult children still holiday with them surely is because you pay for them.

I imagine telling a 23 year old that they have to cover the cost of their place would have a different outcome.

lol definitely!

Why shouldn’t they be paid for on a family holiday? Key word is ‘family’, which they’re part of. I wouldn’t dream of charging DD to come away with us. It’s a rare bit of quality time

Post on the first page says 17 is “very old” to be holidaying with parents.

it depends on the child’s circumstances as well. My eldest is 19 and wants a family holiday before she goes to uni. Of course I’ll pay as she doesn’t have an income. When she goes to uni I will pay (or contribute, it’s likely she’ll pay to fly from uni to wherever, and I’ll cover hotels etc).

I want to see her and spend time with her. If she can’t afford to cover the cost then yes I will pay.

mumsnet seems to expect children to be completely self sufficient and pay their own way the day they turn 18.

Teenagers have their own beliefs and ideas. It's important not to shut them down immediately, even if their opinions may be unpalatable to you. The topics you mentioned are highly political and nuanced, and there is no consensus among any political party or even the general population. It's best to ignore any shocking speech that may come from her.

Both DP and I have teenagers who say some rather bizarre and challenging things, but we choose to ignore them. However, DP has a degree in politics and often takes the opportunity to engage them in discussions on political and moral ethics.
Sometimes these chats do end in one or all parties claiming the other is talking bollox.

We had same issue with my teenage DSS. He was a horror lol and I was the only strict one and he always said how much he appreciated it. He would get away with all sorts at his GPs where he often stayed, stealing from them we later found out with them keeping quiet. He’d tell them the poor me story about his half siblings (which he loves btw) and they lapped it up. Not me. Lots of teens misbehave but trauma and separation doesn't excuse it. You can still be kind and firm about bad behaviour.

My kids are 20 and 21 and are still holidaying with us! They love it!

My kids are 20 and 21 and are still holidaying with us! They love it!

Great statement, no help to OP

I’m sure OP won’t be back, but the grilling, as so many have taken offence at, is posters pointing out what an awful time her 17 yo has had, and that few teenagers will come out of that unscathed.
Unfortunately teens who have been through these times tend not to be sweet, sad and easily helped, they tend to have complex and often downright horrible behaviour that pushes parents to their limits.
Treating this as typical bratty behaviour that can be dealt with like you would a 17 yr old that has not had these experiences is unlikely to solve anything and could make the relationship far more difficult. That’s not to say that there should be no accountability or consequences, not at all, boundaries are important, but in this case excluding her from a family trip is likely to push the dd even further away and deeper into being troubled.

she lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

I wonder how close this ^ simplified statement is to the perspective of the dd. I’m guessing it’s quite accurate, even if the op and others find it offensive.

When you’re a parent of a tricky child you are often overwhelmed with advice that should just be ignored, mainly because most parents do not have the experience of raising a child with complex needs and cannot think beyond their own experiences of children and of parenting.