To exclude one child from family holiday

[Mama1209]

I have a strained relationship with my eldest daughter. She basically lives with her grandparents. I try my hardest to make her feel loved, wanted & included. We have booked a summer holiday abroad this year. 6 of us in total so it’s not cheap. We have just been on a weekend break and she was a nightmare! Shouting and swearing calling me names in public etc. I don’t get it because she was really looking forward to it. It’s as soon as she doesn’t get her own way she kicks off. Now me and my husband will work hard all year to pay for this summer holiday and I don’t want her to ruin it for us and the other kids! AIBU to cancel her off? I feel like she would never forgive me and it would ruin any chance of building a stronger relationship so I’m torn!

Could you do something just you and her instead?

If she was looking forward to an outing then behaved in a strange/ unusual way - perhaps she needs more support - is she potentially neurodiverse/ has she suffered major childhood trauma and not had enough therapy?

I think it seems odd to focus on whether or not she should come on holiday

Also - you are effectively saying you don't want to parent her - because it's easier just having the younger ones - has it always been like that?

She has had a lot of counselling. I’ve honestly tried everything. I think a lot of it is jealousy / her feeling left out but I’m aware of that and do try to prevent her feeling like that. My husband has a daughter to a previous relationship and she is 2 years younger. My son is 12 and we have a toddler too. Everyone else gets on well and functions as a happy family. I give her a lot of chances and understanding due to the death of her dad but I’m not sure if it’s the right think to do as this behaviour is not acceptable

Did the deterioration in behaviour when she was 14 (although let’s face it, that’s pretty standard) coincide with anything in particular - birth of a sibling, big argument with her stepdad etc?

I’m mentioning “in front of the kids” in relation to this weekend as we were away as a family

Yes me getting pregnant!

That's what I was going to suggest. Regardless of how you mean it and how sensible a decision it might be for the rest of the kids, she might (probably?) will take it as rejection / not being wanted. So do something that she picks, even if it's just an hour or two to start with, just you and her.

Yes and we do, but she wants to come she’s excited just like she was for this weekend but look how this has turned out!!

Could she be grieving for her father? Perhaps it's all coming out now. Can she access some counselling? I think a weekend away or a few day trips just you and her could be really lovely for her. Maybe she feels like the outsider ( not saying this is your fault).

She lost her dad, you got pregnant, she acted out and got shipped to her grandparents.

No wonder she's acting up.

How much time do you spend with just you and her?

I think you're right that stopping her coming on this holiday could potentially end the relationship entirely, however it doesn't seem like you would be too sad about that.

Her behaviour isn't acceptable, however you didn't parent her when it started, you pushed her away while welcoming a new baby.

As a girl who's mother had another family yet was bought up by her grandparents, she will never forgive you and you will never have the same relationship as you do with your other children no matter what you do now. This is a fact. She won't forget that you didn't take her and you can't predict her behaviour that comes from a place of pain and a huge feeling of rejection.

I was ready to be quite harsh in my response. But she is 17 and not a child anymore.

I was the same, now in my 30's. Successful career. Amazing husband. First baby on the way. Unfortunately my grandparents are not around to reap the rewards of picking up after my mum. My mum now watches from the sidelines, she misses out.

You do you. She thinks you do that anyway.

These threads always make me so sad

This is a girl whose father died and then mum moves in a new bloke with his child, has a couple more, one of which being in a pretty crucial age for most young women as they enter their teen years.

You are the problem here

Instead of focusing on your child you focused on your own happiness and desire to move on and have more children. Both of those selfish decisions have led to your eldest suffering.

You shipped her off to her grandparents when you should have held her tighter. Going on this holiday without her will be the nail in the coffin of your relationship. If you are ok with that (which I think you might be) then shame on you

I did not push her away! It was 6 years later I had a baby. I’m allowed to move on with my life! She chose to live there and often chooses to come back when she falls out with her grand parents. We often do things together. How dare you assume otherwise? Did this happen to you? Are you projecting?

How sad for all of you.
How easy would it be to have an open and honest chat, just the two of you, about the holiday? To come to some mutual agreements about how you could both deal with any situations that arrive? Treat her like an adult and ask her what she feels and how you would both handle feeling angry or disagreements (I.e. space from each other, no raised voices, speaking away from the other children).
I think it would be a real shame if she was left out and that this could be a opportunity to build bridges. As you say, she has matured and this could be a totally different holiday.

Oh jeez you are making things up now! We were already separated when her dad died and I already had my 2nd child! I’ve been lucky to have the support of her grandparents and we have stuck together as a big blended family during the past few difficult years.

Thanks so much for this reply. Yes I think we need to have a long discussion about it. Setting boundaries/ expectations.

Sorry, I agree with @InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow and your intolerant response to her doesn't help.

You may feel that you haven't pushed her away in the course of "moving on with your life", but she probably does. It's very unusual for a child to move out of home and live with grandparents, and in her case this coincided with you producing new children; there's no way she didn't feel replaced and unwanted, whether you meant it or not. You say she moves between homes when relationships break down, so she's had very little stability. I imagine it's been a long time since she's truly felt that she's centred and prioritised as a child would usually be. She exists on the periphery of your new nuclear family, she sounds very angry and insecure and you're here blaming her for the fallout and asking for support to exclude her further, rather than trying to fix the damage. This is one of the saddest things I've read on MN in years.

shame on YOU you have no idea! Actually her dad went to prison for domestic abuse and we were separated years before he died. I was already with my husband before he died and had my 2nd child already before he died, having my 3rd 2 years ago. Not sure how that means I’ve put my own happiness before hers. For your information I am a devoted, loving mother so someone on the internet who doesn’t know me is not going to make me thing otherwise!

I’m sorry to hear this. Your grandparents must have been special people. I’m so happy you have a successful life now!

she definitely thinks I do that a way no matter how hard I try but at least I can sleep at night knowing I’ve done all I can.

Of course you're allowed to move on.

But while a vulnerable child was struggling with the death of her father, a new guy on the scene and a new baby coming along you moved her to her grandparents.

You moved on, largely without her.

Now she feels rejected and 'othered' which influences her behaviour and your solution is to reject and 'other' her some more.

If you can't see your part in her behaviour then I'm not sure anyone can really help you.

I'm sorry but your replies tell us a lot about you and your behaviour.

Like my selfish mother, never taking ANY accountability for the part you've had to play in your child's pain/rejection/behaviour etc.

A "loving and devoted mother" wouldn't be online asking this question and then getting on the defense when faced with reality.

Can you talk to her and explain how you'd love her to come but are worried doe to your recent trip? You really don't want her to feel unwanted. My adult children in their 20's still come away with us (we pay) so even if she didn't come it would hurt not to be asked.

I guess I just feel I’ve done / am doing all I can to support her but nothing will replace her dad. All we can do as parents is our best, especially in challenging circumstances. I don’t want to exclude her which is why I’ve written this post as I’m at the end of my tether being shouted and sworn at in public so not sure wether I should set a harsh boundary at the risk of alienating her further!