Man in ladies’ loo

[Suburbanrunner]

I was out running earlier today and stopped to go to the loo in a local park. A man came in at the same time with his young daughter and went into the cubicle next to me. As she went to the loo the father and daughter talked through all the steps they were taking and also commented on me ie is that lady also doing a wee, is she wiping her bum etc. I felt a bit uncomfortable and thought I’d wait for them to leave. However the father then proceeded to say that as they were there he was going to have a wee too. At this point I couldn’t take any more and said could you not do that, please can you go in the men’s. He got pretty aggressive saying what else was he meant to do as he had his young daughter with him. I felt so uncomfortable at this stage that I left (without going to the loo!)
Now I’m questioning myself - aibu to be annoyed he was in the loos? Or was he perfectly within his rights to bring his daughter into the women’s loos and also use them himself?
thank you mumsnet jury!

Same.

I told the father of my daughter to make an announcement when he took her to the ladies, so the women in there would know he was there for his daughter, the alternative would have been taking her past busy urinals which I find far more horrifying. Obviously I wasn’t present at the time.

I’ve never been bothered about dad’s taking their children into the women’s loos.

In many cases you need a radar key to use disabled toilets.
There should be unisex family toilets in the 21st Century in this rundown country.
I don't have a problem with this father taking his DD in the ladies. It's awful to have to take young kids in to some men's loos.

Surely you take the child to the toilet that matches the sex of the accompanying adult?

If my son wanted a wee I would take him to the female toilet! There’s no way I would be stepping into the male toilets if my son needed a wee 😬

Wouldn’t bother me at all. I can’t imagine a gents with urinals (barf) would be an appropriate environment for a little girl.

YABU

If the alternative had happened, bet you’d be on here complaining about seeing a man take a little girl into the male toilets. Grow up and quit attention seeking on Mumsnet.

It's been the case for quite a long time that women go into the gents' when there are long queues for the Ladies. It started well before so called gender woo.

This. I really don't understand why OP objected to him using the toilet while he was there. It's not as if it could conceivably have harmed her.

wtf? My DP takes his daughter to the men’s if he’s out with her and I’m not there. And the whole “is she wiping her bum?” stuff, what the hell? Just shut that convo straight down and say “let’s not talk about the lady, it’s rude to talk about people”. He sounds like a total weirdo.

Im not sure where I stand on this - it really wouldn’t bother me at all and I’d prefer a man bring his daughter in the ladies than take her into the mens. However I appreciate that a lot of women would be uncomfortable with this. I do wonder where you stand on men being on their own with their babies and the only baby change being in the ladies because this happens A LOT!

He ought to have gone in the men's with his daughter if his daughter needed an adult with her.

That's really fucking obvious and normal and has always been the case for kids up to about 8.

Anyone saying otherwise is implying it's not safe for a man to take his kid in the men's loos and if that's the case, where is the outrage? Where is the national campaign? How the hell can we encourage dads to look after their kids if the men's loos aren't safe?! Another hurdle to equality.

I can see a circumstance where this could have come about without misogynist entitlement - perhaps the men's were disgusting and there was no loo roll to clean the seat? - HOWEVER non-misogynist man would have apologised to you and explained the instant you came in.

The adult should take the child into the toilet that is the same as his or her sex.
ie An adult man with a child whether girl or boy should take the child into the gents, just as an adult femaile with a child, boy or girl would take the child into the ladies.
mens toilets should also have a cubilce.
Of I was a man (I'm not), with a girl, and taking them into the gents, I would shout out a warning beforehand, just as the cleaners do.

It used to be safe for man with young dd to ask a woman to help, but it's not any more. (I'm talking way back in the early 60s, it's what my dad did; mostly though, dad didn't take us all out alone, or rather he didn't take me out without mum for precisely this reason. He could, and did, take my brothers out because loo drills weren't a problem with no girls in the mix.)

I would rather have a man overseeing a young dd in the ladies' than have a young dd having to go into the smelly and quite possibly filthy cubicle in the men's.

yanbu

men shouldn’t be in the ladies loo…even if they are cleaning it there is usually a sign so women can make an informed decision

I don’t understand why it’s so awful for a very small girl to go into the men’s toilets accompanied by her father. If it’s because people are worried from an actual
safeguarding point of view then surely there should be no children in there at all, but nobody ever suggests that.

Try to remember you are a service human, Screaming. You are of no importance, and if a Man wants to take anything of yours, including your rights, you should hand them over without question. Or maybe join in the conversation politely while he and his child discuss your toilet experience….

I'm a dad of daughters. No way in a million years would I have taken them into the ladies toilets. They were absolutely fine getting taken into the men's when small, most Dads do this no one bats an eyelid.

You are allowed to take your disabled 11 year old son in with you. I take my disabled 10 year old in with me. Have never had an issue.

Me neither. Most people weren’t, until a few trans people were going to get some basic rights. Rights which make no difference whatsoever to who uses what toilets or who accesses safe spaces, but here we are.

Being allowed to use single sex spaces which are fit the oppo sex is not a basic right.

Trans women being allowed in what are meant to be single sex female only spaces do make a difference to some people.

It's a woman's toilet, not a man's, he should have taken his child into the men's, period. I have a son, and as a woman myself I would never consider taking him into the men's!! Why is it always the women who have to step aside and put up with this nonsense? And why are you women accepting of this? I have had some terrible encounters with men over my life time, so much so I'd have been mortified and yes maybe even afraid seeing him in there. Our boundaries are already being crossed and people here saying oh any man with a child should be able to go into the woman's stops the woman's toilets being for women? Do anyone of you who thinks it's okay know how many women are killed in this country every week? I assume you like the idea of adding to it? Open access to women. Thanks a lot.

Have you got kids? This is absolutely what they do. They want to know everyone does the same thing. He's really not being misogynistic.

I've got a 3 year old DD and a 1 year old DS.

I wouldn't like it if DH took her into the men's. They're usually absolutely disgusting and I just wouldn't want her in there. So far we've always managed to use a disabled toilet if he has to take her whilst out, only once had to go to the womens as that was the only space with a baby change (it had been a big poo).

I'm very much GC, but in this instance I would make an allowance. They were in the cubicle, and the chatting thing is really normal for little kids. We've repeatedly gone through lists of everyone DD knows and I've had to confirm that they all poop. Even before children I knew this and just found it funny. There's no reason to be uptight, you're all in the loos to do a wee or a poo after all!

Telling him he can't do a wee - wtf? He'd have to leave and go into the mens, taking her with him - exactly what he didn't want and why he was in there in the first place. What would be the bloody point in making them then troop out to the men's?? If he wizzed behind a tree I bet you'd complain then too.

I would have had zero issue with this. If a man is with his daughter and she’s young enough to need to talk through all the steps then of course he’s ok to be in the loo with her!