To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

Let me ask you something: are you planning to go and see this play?

presume

verb
past tense: presumed; past participle: presumed

1. 1.
2. suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability.
3. "I presumed that the man had been escorted from the building"

@60sbird

On the balance of probability you are white and conversely on the balance of probability you are black.

????

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eye

It is self apparent what colour someone is using skin tone as detected by sight. White and black are colours. If you start to have artbitary boundaries where whiteness (as a colour) is not the founding factor in who is white then you are giving the term white privilege to whoever you feel is deserving of that privilege and who is the arbiter?

@mids2019 you use a lot of words and links and whatnot to try and prove some sort of weird point that white privilege isn't a thing, when it has been proven time and time and time again that it really is.

Nobody needs to narrow down the category of white, or look at your stupid links to pop stars.

The simple fact is that if you are perceived to be white then you have white privilege.

It doesn't mean that all white people are living in mansions and all non white people are on the streets, it means that non white people have an additional barrier in their lives due to the colour of their skin.

It doesn't mean that's the only barrier either.

I am disabled, that is another barrier, sometimes my disability creates a barrier to things that able bodied people don't have to think about, that means that able bodied people have a privilege that I don't.

Sometimes me not being white creates an extra barrier to things that a white person wouldn't have to think about, that means the white person has a privilege that I don't.

One of my dc is gay, sometimes her being gay brings an extra layer of complication into a situation that a straight person wouldn't have to think about, that means that straight people have a privilege that gay people don't.

You know exactly what everyone means, and you're tying yourself up in knots trying to get exact explanations of this that and the next thing, when it boils down to perception, and you know it.

I really don't know why you're arguing so hard to deny a point that has been proven over and over again.

It's the idea of perceived whiteness. We have moved away from skin tone to something a lot more nebulous and subjective. Perceived whiteness depends on the perceive r and so the amount of white privilege one may have could vary depending on who was doing the preceiving

Again when perceived to be white I think you mean a certain kind of white. The white from western Europe (mainly northern countries) as you could say Eastern Europeans can't use white privilege to an advantage. Sure they find bandages of their skin tone but the discrimination they feel is very real and washes out the concept of white privilege they are meant to be aware of.

I do think there is a conversation to be had about how far a society has to go in accommodating different cultures and how far immigrants (of whatever generation) need to go to integrate into the society where they have chosen to live.

My parents immigrated into the UK from Africa (their parents from a mixture of UK and Eastern Europe). They were determined to bring us up British, hardly even spoke about us being Jewish (no one was religious after my grandparents’ generation). We did have plenty of Jewish friends, though.

Maybe this was too far, as discovering my roots and ancestry has been interesting and makes me a more rounded and interesting person.

But, I would never forget the gratitude I have to the free and open society which welcomed my parents (despite the occasional racism I have been subject to). I would never expected to be given special treatment due to being Jewish, being treated the same works well for me.

But I do think a black out night in a white Christian country is quite strange! Outside of white Christianity, I don’t see other countries so apologetic and obsequious about their history, though most cultures have been racist throughout most of history.

Why is it that the most tolerant cultures should be the most apologetic. It is almost as if tolerance is mistaken for weakness…..

Yes, I have read lots about ‘equity’ vs ‘equality’ and hierarchy of privilege. I understand it, I just don’t agree with it. Give me plain old fashioned equality any day of the week.

After reading about the scale of harmful racist comments meted out to a young black performer who is about to play Juliet in Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet opposite Tom Holland, I imagine that many black performers might also welcome a night or two in front of an all-black audience away from the toxic white gaze.

By the way white audiences are not banned on blackout nights, it is simply requested that they purchase tickets for another night. No one’s going to turn them away or be nasty to them if they choose to attend.

@Ramalangadingdong ,

‘By the way white audiences are not banned on blackout nights, it is simply requested that they purchase tickets for another night. No one’s going to turn them away or be nasty to them if they choose to attend.’

I have made this point several times. They CANNOT legally be banned, this is as close as the theatre can get to banning them without breaking the law (although I wonder how it would hold up if tested in court). And as for your last part, I wonder how white people would enjoy the ‘Black Gaze’ on those nights. (I can’t bring myself to be as offensive as you and pretend being looked at by another skin colour is ‘toxic’).

Is it massively naive of me that my initial response on reading this was just “oh that’s nice”?
I’m not into theatre at all, but I am into classical music and I think that the perception there can be of classical music as being elitist and not for ‘people like us’ is a real shame. So (notwithstanding that a lack of support for music in schools is probably the main problem) I’d support any gimmick that made people try something that they might miss out on otherwise. Whether it’s music, theatre or a group specifically for Muslims to go hiking in the countryside, I think targeting one group doesn’t deprive others. I see the fact that it’s about slavery has touched a nerve, but honestly I don’t think it’s that big a deal.

Few people deliberately use white privilege to their advantage, I would probably say most people who benefit from white privilege don't know they benefit from it either, because they don't have to think about it.

It's just ingrained into our society.

I'm not really interested in being part of trying to create your hierarchy points system where we are supposed to rank who has it worse.

Having non white skin creates difficulties that those with white skin don't have, that's a fact.

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/no-need-to-plead-guilty/

I saw a meme that depicted this very well. Three people, one tall, one medium height and one short, are trying to look over a fence. In the first picture, all three are standing on one box each. The tall person is raised up well over the height of the fence, the medium heigh person can see over easily, but the short person still can’t see over. In the second picture, the tall person has no box to stand on, the medium height person has one, and the short person has two boxes - and now all three can see over the fence.

In a perfect world, these adjustments would not be necessary - but this is not a perfect world. I hope that society is changing, so that these inequalities are improving, but until the people who have been, and are, most affected by inequality tell me that things are better, I will continue to support them in getting the adjustments they need, to drive progress toward a more equal society.

Yes, I know the meme that you're talking about. It illustrates the point perfectly.

It is if you are getting hoards of racist comments thrown at you on social media. And I hope that people understand that toxic white gaze doesn't refer to all white people.

And I doubt black people would be taking any notice of you if you attend the blackout night. They will be too busy talking to their friends.

Do you think you can’t be racist because you’ve married a black man?🤣 your comments are very telling but can’t say I’m surprised to hear that a black man has married someone with such views. Why you bringing up BLM for no reason at all?
Reverse racism doesn’t exist, try again

It’s the people with power within those tolerant cultures who should be apologetic. They are the ones with privilege. The rest of us have nothing to apologise for. Most white people in this country have ancestors who were equally oppressed.

@PressureLikeATickTickTick
Again, my husband is black. So I'm not some racist. It's the truth

Lol, just because you married someone who is black doesn't mean you can't be racist 🙄😂

Asking white people not to attend is not about white people. Not understanding that is an example of white privilege.

White privilege exists despite you seemingly not being able to recognise a white person when you see one.

You are turning yourself inside out trying to overcomplicate this in an attempt to disprove the existence of white privilege.

@StormingNorman

I think I can recognise white people throughs of skin rone. What other measure is there of defining white?

yes I am over complicating this because any publication in white privilege comes with plenty on caveats on the subject including it being country specific, culture specific, not the only privilege, overriding privileges etc. Mixed race people people can be pigeon holed by this concept as their skin tone obviously can take a spectrum of skin hues and there is no one level of arbitrary 'whiteness' to determine in reality whether the person will possess this nebulous privilege.

I think it is better to concentrate on racism than produce some ill defined privilege that white people (again ill defined) are meant to carry. White means a certain kind of white in my opinion in the UK; it means being of white heritage spreading back a few generations, being non slavic, having an anglicised name, not being of mixed race. White is a simple moniker attached to a group of people some think are 'enjoying' the fruits of colonisation some centuries later.

Any research that looks at white people would have to determine what white means a priori and that means you can have a significant level of bias and in effect you are setting up your own problem. You do not look at relative advantages and disadvantages of white people in themselves for instance. You have to consider the disadvantages Eastern European whites have in this country; in fact non immigrant privilege may be the real privilege of you wish to use the term is what you need to consider.

Racism is accepted as a societal problem as everyone knows what it is and can see steps to get and prevent ir. There are a large number of white people who do not accept the concept and the wording of white privilege can be his construed reality by. Struggling whites.

Also with privilege it can be viewed as a concept as something that is desirable to be kbtained. We wish to be wish for the privilege for example. We then have the question is white privilege something to be obtained or to be desired?

Skin tone

Exactly this and a marketing ploy also.

What would happen if there was a white only play?

@Daisybuttercup12345

turnaround be using your white privilege p resumably?

Reverse racism. vm.tiktok.com/ZGeuL3NNg/