To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

[PenguinLord]

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

@Lion400

I see your point but again when it comes to 'white privilege' then if white means white white must include white people from North Africa, pale skinned Hispanics, Jews, Eastern Europeans and the whole ideological edifice of white privilege starts to collapse.

the US government consider s a lot of people of middle eastern heritage white but they themselves don't identify as white. It's not simple. (Or if it's simple then we can't just ideologically align skin tone to privilege)

Equality isn't treating everyone the same. Its about leveling the playing field so people have the same chances, the same education and the same rights. There is privilege in our society just from being white or even more white and male. There is racism and sexism and you can pretend all you want, but those things aren't gone. They should be, but until they are what groups that suffer racism, sexism and so on need is a leg up so they have a chance at reaching equality. And no it doesn't have to work both ways because there's already privilege on the other side of it.

Another poster who has not bothered to read three lines about what the event actually entails, but has OPINIONS.

What’s the quote? “When you have privilege, equality feels like oppression”.

ain’t that the truth!

I think you've explained it well. Im white and my life is certainly not privileged but that isn't what the term means. There's unconcious biasis that effect things at a societal level and we need to acknowledge they exist. I don't feel guilty for slavery or for racism or for white privilege, its not about guilt, it's about acknowledging the issue so we can work on fixing it. Other countries might have other different biasis to work on to have true equality, that doesn't change the situation in countries like England and the US and Australia. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Agreed

Much research has shown that two parent families, happily together raising the child/ren is the most significant factor in life

Or - as it says here in the link:

• Children are significantly more likely to avoid poverty and prison, and to graduate from college, if they are raised in an intact two-parent family.
• From poverty to college graduation to incarceration, black children and young adults from two-parent families are more likely to be flourishing than their white peers from single-parent families
• On average, black young adults from families headed by their mother and father are more likely to be flourishing educationally than black young adults from non-intact homes

“Children who grow up in a household with only one biological parent are worse off, on average, than children who grow up in a household with both of their biological parents, regardless of the parents’ race or educational background.”
^^

https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children

And you're trying to make the issue seem worthless by bringing a heap of complications and what ifs into it. Its not a complex definition of white, its not about what happens in other countries, its specifically about the unconcious bias that occurs in countries with largely Anglo-Saxon heritage against people of colour. Its not personal racism or nastiness between one person and another, it doesn't mean some white people aren't disadvantaged or discriminated against, its systemic racial bias which is still a massive discriminatory part of the system. We need to work on eliminating that and whilst ever that exists there will be situations in which a step up is needed just to level the playing field.

@Lion400

You have narrowed the definition of white to Anglo Saxon heritage. It makes 'white privilge' seem like simplistic sloganeering.

So by white you mean a subsection of white. Also a lot of Dutch people aren't necessarily of Anglo Saxon heritage yet they certainly enjoyed a privileged position in South Africa. If we bore down into what is meant by white you see that it is a specific sub section of that "race" (if you can define a white race) and that sub section probably corresponds to a demographic that holds privilege independent of skin colour.

Sonia white privilege only present in some countries and if so which ones?

? Are you talking to me?

What’s the quote? “When you have privilege, equality feels like oppression”.

ain’t that the truth!

///

Absolutely. Us poor white people. Being asked to leave a few performances to black people. They are probably going to talk about us and everything. Bloody racists.

I would like to see more white people stepping up as allies by supporting the blackout night and stop thinking for once that it’s all about them.

I have never heard this saying. It hits the nail on the head.

Lol.

🙄

God forbid should anyone have an opinion in 2024.

Equality isn't treating everyone the same. Its about leveling the playing field so people have the same chances, the same education and the same rights. There is privilege in our society just from being white or even more white and male

Equality is never gonna happen. Because nature itself is not equal and doesn’t make people equal. Even children from the same family are not equal. You are supposed to treat them equally, yes. But you cannot expect equal outcomes from equal treatment.

You have misunderstood. It is not about outcomes.

There will always be individual differences but there should be genuine equality of opportunity.

It isn't about treating everyone the same. It is about treating everyone equitably.

This is so bloody tiresome.

If pp can't understand that if someone is observed or presumed to be white then those are the ones who will benefit from white privilege.

Writing 87 paragraphs and linking to a pop stars wiki page is honestly ridiculous.

systemic

adjective

1. 1.
2. relating to a system, especially as opposed to a particular part.
3. "the disease is localized rather than systemic"

@InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow

maybe it's just me but what does presumed white mean? I think you can observe a skin colour without recourse to presumption.

I think to think we have a system that entrenches white privilege doesn't help focus on individual cases of racism but makes those that perceive them selves as white as somehow part of a systemic problem which isn't the case. Systemic seems to suggest policy that actively discriminates and there is no such policy in any major instituti on. It is better to combat a culture through reducing discrimination or actively penalizing it rather than have the construct of white privilege that results in division.

@Lion400

no sorry

It isn't about treating everyone the same. It is about treating everyone equitably

Someone upthread noted the lack of black audience members? Could it be that they just don’t find theatre relevant? That they are not interested?

Some people DO treat the disparity as proof of some sort of bias or discrimination and it’s just very tiresome. It is YOU holding your culture as universal or that there’s something wrong if it is not to literally everyone’s taste.

I understand this is a marketing tactic to outreach to the black community. It is probably as harmless as a ‘Ladies night’ tbh but the discourse around it is just insane

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not making any assumptions about anything. I'm merely saying that, if some black people would like to watch a play about slavery in a predominantly black audience, I respect their wishes and I don't feel that this is in any way discriminatory towards me as a white person.

PressureLikeATickTickTick · 06/04/2024 13:41
No it's divisive and unnecessary.

A white person sat in an audience isn't going to detract from a good play.

We, as white people in 2024, are not guilty of slavery crimes. We are not responsible for the things people who existed before we were even born did.

It's segregation, pure and simple.

This

Go on then, go and sit there and tell us how you feel.