I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

Fazenda in Manchester is upmarket, but you still have to wash your hair after a visit unless you're happy to smell of barbecued meat and grease! And I say that as someone who likes red meat. It's somewhere that a lot of meat eaters wouldn't be comfortable with - even if just from a digestive point of view, not many people would choose to eat that much red meat in one sitting.

It's the equivalent of knowing there's non drinkers in a group, and choosing to go to a bottomless brunch. The whole point of the place is BBQ'd red meat to excess.

This is wholly wrong op, I used to hate enforced corporate events that were verging on bullying. I declined an awayday that involved walking on rope walkways at considerable height and swinging at height. I am terrified of heights and declined. I was also nearly 60 at the time and worried about potential injury. My boss was angry with me and said I had to take holiday which I had intended to do any way.

As it turned out my colleague of the same age broke her leg at the event, a bad break leaving her unable to work for several months. The boss who insisted sat out when they got there. My immediate boss said it was ultra competitive and she felt very afraid the whole time, but felt she had to compete with the management team or be judged.

Both events sound just awful op. Disrespectful of your beliefs and outdated when mentioning the salad bar, bit of throwback to "cant you just eat the carrots".

They sound a bunch of wankers OP. I'm veggie and my DH isn't ( I will even cook meat for him and adult children) but even he wouldn't go to those places. They sound grim. I think you have been very reasonable saying that you will meet them for a drink before or after. I don't even go to any work's night . I spend enough with my colleagues during the week and them with me. Speak to your union if you get any snash off your boss OP.

If an employee raised this as a concern to me at work I would say fine, work from home that day. Or I’d advise that management decide on a different activity. It’s part of your belief system and should be respected.

I would attend the drinks and knock the senior managers' socks off, be funny, friendly and brilliant. Make sure to walk with one of them when it's time to leave/be seated and let them know why you are not staying - your line manager will be shown in a very poor light.

Say you would be glad to join if it was a vegetarian restaurant but you feel physically ill if you see lots of meat so on this occasion i reluctantly have to decline on health grounds however should a more inclusive environment be found then you would be happy to join

Throw it back on them

However.... if it is part of your normal working practice and time and they are offering veggie alternatives they are reasonable to request you take the time off if you dont go

In legal terms there is very little differentiation between work and a social.event organised by work. In an employment tribunal a social.event can be seen as an extension of the workplace. This one definitely would be an extension of the workplace.

I am not a lawyer but I very much doubt an employment tribunal would consider that attending a social event out of hours a legally binding part of an employee's work contract.
The extension of work to social means that if someone harasses or does something at the social event the employer can be held responsible and has a duty to investigate etc. I've chaired many such cases. It does not, ime, extend to forcing employees to attend these events unless they are a contracted part of the job (eg you work in a media role and have to attend press releases etc)

Ugh. Even as an omnivore that’s way too much meat for me. It’s outrageous they won’t accommodate you. As if there are no other more balanced restaurants around.

Yanbu. Places like that are really unpleasant for vegetarians and the salads and sides are designed to accompany the meat-overload so don't really form much of a meal by themselves. Attending a meal like that as a vegetarian would be a nasty "othering" experience where 90% of conversations involving you will include snidy comments and tired old jokes about how weird it is to be vegetarian. Any networking opportunities would ve pousoned by this and more likely to be detrimental to you as the whole event is structured to label you as the weird outsider. Too right you should take this up with HR. What's the sex balance of the group? As women are 3 times more likely than men to be vegetarian (6% vs 3%) this could be seen as a sex discrimination issue especially if women are underrepresented in the group.

This.

I've never eaten meat in my life and definitely couldn't stomach the place you're describing.

If it helps you stand up for yourself, I strongly suspect (based on experience) this workplace is going to be intolerant to a whole range of beliefs/ people they consider too "different". I bet they're not truly progressive employers otherwise, who just happen to not understand vegetarians.

If you feel able to challenge them on this, you could be making it easier in the future for employees of different faiths, backgrounds, sexualities pregnant women etc.

If you were Muslim would they force you to go to a bar to “network”? Probably not!

The aggressive blackmail over the meal and the pressure to attend the race day could amount to constructive dismissal. Do they have a HR department and are you in a union?

I think you have misunderstood me. I wasn't saying extension of the workplace means she can be forced to go to this event, rather that extension of the workplace means she can't. I was replying to a poster who was saying that social events aren't work. I was explaining that they can be considered as work in the circumstances you describe.

Sadly this manager could find himself in hot water if he started forcing people to social.events that they couldn't attend on religious grounds.

I've worked in employment law for over 20 years

In the sense that you can have work disciplinary policies applied if you behave badly, but not illegally, there. Not in the sense that your employer can make your job or performance conditional on attending.

Fazenda and Aintree ? That restaurant is in Spinningfields and there’s loads of other places nearby they could have booked.

It doesn't matter if vegetarian belief/practice is protected in law or not, you're an individual with agency and can't be compelled to do anything you are uncomfortable with or physically couldn't manage (i can't swim so any 'team building' water based activity would be a no-no for me).

I'm assuming the race event was the Grand National - hell would freeze over before i attended that, and i'd be getting union advice if my boss insisted i go.

Stick to your guns OP, your boss is on thin ice with this i think

Don't go. I have been to a place like that. Watching people eat excess dead animals is obscene.

I don't eat meat as I've never liked it and can't stand the smell of most of it, so the venue really wouldn't be for me. If the occasion is officially a 'thank you', say you've thought about it and appreciate what they're doing, but as they know you're veggie so wouldn't enjoy being surrounded by meat and also the fact the smell can make you heave, so think it's better you don't go (ie you don't want to embarrass everyone by heaving at the table!). Say you'll happily go the drinks and if the meal is part of your working hours, say you'll take that part off as holiday.

The venue was a racecourse, it wasn’t a racing day.

If it was Aintree which it sounds like, or Cheltenham, they are NH courses where there are a very few races for three- four year olds, but the majority are six or older. Corach Rambler p, who won the Grand National last year and was third in this year’s Gold Cup , was nine in the GN and ten this year, so a fully mature gelding. He’s not the exception, either.

it’s fine to be a campaigner, but get your facts right.

I'm very surprised you're the only vegetarian or vegan, is there nobody else who doesn't eat meat?

I do eat meat but I wouldn't fancy masses of it in my face like that. Has the person doing the booking got an ulterior motive?

I love Fazenda. The meat is incredible but there's no getting away with the fact that it's 100% geared towards carnivores.

There are some veggie options on the menu but as the meat comes to the table on a regular basis, I can't actually think of a worse option for a vegetarian.

It's insensitive at best. Definitely don't go. Your TL sounds like a dick.

It was a race day.

Maybe you need to get your facts right 😉

This! and I also wouldn’t go to the horse races, good for you standing up for yourself.

I agree you have a fair point and shouldn’t have to go. But also for balance I’m vegetarian and really like the veggie option and salad bar at Fazenda!