I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

I'm not vegetarian but I can totally see why you wouldn't want to go somewhere where the waiting staff are actually carving the meat right next to you!
Good for you for standing your ground!

Has your contribution to achieving team targets been inferior to others? If not then why on earth should you be expected to attend an event whereby your experience of being thanked for that work be inferior? Limited choices and excessive exposure to others eating food you don’t agree with??

So wrong. It’s not even like you’ve asked them to change venue you’ve just said you don’t want to go and understandably so!

YANBU.
And I’m with you on the horse racing too. On that occasion I’d probably just call in sick, save the hassle of an argument.

Can you put the menu up, perhaps there’s options for you. I’ve been to one of these places before and there was a couple of veggie options grilled cheese and a grilled aubergine I seem to remember. We shop in supermarkets full of meat so not much difference really. Having said all that if you don’t want to go to a restaurant then you should not be made to x

Stick to your guns. There's absolutely no way I'd go to a restaurant like that, or to the horse racing.

I think we are all hoping you have this in writing.

And then have a chat with HR

This reminds me of an incident a few years ago. Not veggie related, but I just refused (in my head) to go to a works meal as I was to be seated beside my nemesis Jack. Nope never in a million years was I sitting through a forced jollity meal with that person in my flippin ear all night.

I had to go to this event to meet people from other branches nationwide. I understood this fully. I did not say anything to anyone, I turned up for the pre dinner drinks thinggy, mingled as instructed and at some point I whispered to my boss that I was feeling sick and it is D+V. I went home before the meal.

Took the next day off sick. I am an expedient liar but it worked, no drama and Jack couldn't needle me either. I'm not too proud of my insincerity, but the relief I felt when I turned the key in my car to get out of dodge that night was exquisite.

@doppelganger2 "I just would decline the meal but not take the day off. It's not such a big deal. I think you are overthinking it."

No she's not. You are under thinking it to the point of not thinking it at all......

I lead a large team and no way would I organise an evening like this when one of us was a veggie. It’s out of order and snacks in the face of the exclusivity modern senior leaders should promote. I always check restaurants are good for all, and happy to change. Your manager is a dick.

This may be of interest: https://www.littler.com/publication-press/publication/ethical-veganism-protected-belief-uk-what-does-mean-employers

However, I doubt if the OP wants to go down the legal route because of this. It would be more likely to come up if her job description was changed to involve something with meat. (Also for the moment the case law only appears to cover "ethical veganism", which is probably not yet fully defined yet. I know an otherwise very strict vegan who checks every ingredients list on a packet of biscuits for gelatine, etc, but who will happily eat mussels because "they don't have a central nervous system and so can't feel pain".)

Back to the OP's issue: Could you maybe contact the restaurant and ask if they can prepare a veggie main dish? If it's for a large group and the company-paid wine will be flowing freely they might be able to come up with something. Yours will probably not be the first case they have had to deal with. Not ideal, and you shouldn't have to ask, but needs must and all that.

Also HR. A few views on the horse racing -

• if the whole team/company is expected to go, something like horse racing shouldn’t have been chosen in the first place as has obviously had the potential to be uninclusive
• We have a policy where if you don’t want to go to an event deemed as ‘work’ during work hours (even if it’s more social) you need to take the day as holiday (as some people were taking advantage by opting to not go and then just do nothing all day). It’s a shame but only way to stop that happening, and reinforce importance for our company of spending social time together and it not being optional
• But most importantly - we make exceptions based on context and common sense. So if something was chosen that some people didn’t feel comfortable with, we’d talk to them and most likely let them not go and just work the day as normal.

All these food at work debates are challenging.

What frustrates me is that if you're a meat eater you are expected to accommodate anyone who is not but non-meat eaters are NOT expected to accommodate those who ARE meat eaters even when for valid cultural and/or medical reasons. Why is that?

I married a muslim and never ate pork around him. Never brought in the house but when he told me I wasn't allowed to eat it at all because he's muslim. Before that I was in a relationship with someone who didn't eat beef. In avoided beef, wound up in gastric agony every time i ate lentils, beans, soy, tempeh, tofu...

But then again non-meat eaters often disregard the dietary requirements of meat eaters. I need heme-iron. I have a rare bleeding disorder and struggle with anaemia. Meat does the trick! Especially red meat! And being that my mother is a Native American who grew up hunting Moose and fishing salmon - I do not see the problem with eating meat and salmon - they're part of nature and food cycle. What I disagree with is mass production of animals to be slaughtered inhumanely, ultra processed food, additive sand chemicals used to grow vegetables and fruits which destroy the nutrient value of the soil.

OP, if I was sitting at a table with you I would find your disgust of meat to be culturally offensive. Why don't you call the restaurant and tell them you are attending with a group even and want to find out what options you have ahead of time so as to not create a fuss on the day? Or look on their website? Like say here: https://fazenda.co.uk/blog/plant-based-south-american-flavour-meatless-menu

YANBU. I’ve been to a few of those types of places because dh and I love meat but the salad bar is usually pretty crap - just an afterthought, to break up the meat! Your TM is an absolute tit.

Surely it’s quite simple. Most meat-eaters like me can eat other stuff like fish, cheese or vegetables of some variety. Non meat-eaters have far fewer choices.

If you have a medical condition which means you just have to eat meat then that should be accommodated.

Nobody has a right to tell others what to eat.

I hope that helps you understand.

There was a case a few years ago where 'ethical veganism' was found to be a protected characteristic under the 2010 Equality Act. The Vegan Society's website has a long page on legal rights. https://www.vegansociety.com/get-involved/international-rights-network/currently-experiencing-problems#:~:text=Vegans%20are%20protected%20under%20the,the%20public%20and%20private%20sector.
Vegetarianism, at the moment, is apparently not protected. This is a random solicitor's page (2024) explaining it. https://www.lesteraldridge.com/blog/employment-hr/vegetarianism-not-a-protected-characteristic/print/

Edited to say I cross posted with @samarrange, but I'll leave it anyway.

fazenda.co.uk/blog/plant-based-south-american-flavour-meatless-menu

After seeing the vegy menu ive changed my mind. There are lots of suitable options plus the salad bar.
They have accommodated your needs

If its part of your job contract you should go or take the time off as holiday x

@cremebrulait "What frustrates me is that if you're a meat eater you are expected to accommodate anyone who is not but non-meat eaters are NOT expected to accommodate those who ARE meat eaters"

In what way?

I would flatly refuse to go and let the team leader know in no uncertain terms why. One too many work lunches where some arsehole decided to wave meat at me made me more militant than ever about avoiding things like this. Luckily I'm part of a fantastic team now where nobody would dream of doing that (or, possibly, dare to try it...)

I'm with you on not going to the racing, too. A while ago a team member suggested going to the races as a team day out and hated me when I refused to agree to it.

OP, if I was sitting at a table with you I would find your disgust of meat to be culturally offensive

Why are you so easily offended? I eat meat but I completely understand where vegans and vegetarians are coming from. And increasingly I actually admire their resolve. How on earth does their rejection of meat offend you?!

I knew it would be a rodizio, I wouldn’t say Fazenda is high profile.

But it’s possibly over priced for a vegetarian. Are work paying?

I don’t eat much meat but they serve really good unlimited sides too. I would definitely and eat all the veggie food if work are paying!

There will be plenty for you to eat, but that’s immaterial if you don’t like to be around meat.

Is everyone else a meat eater?

They're a shower of cunts.

Of course you don't need to 'suck it up and go.' Tell them to go to hell.

I got daily abuse ('banter' 🙄) in the workforce 20 years ago for not eating meat but nothing like this, I find it mind-boggling that your boss is like this. Absolutely stand your ground and escalate it if you have to. He should not have forced you to go to a horseracing event either.

So why would you have to book a day off. He's an idiot

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but some religious people wouldn't like the horse racing due to the focus on gambling involved at it. I know people can gamble about any sport, but it's much more in your face at a horse race.

I think your LM would be on very thin ground if you were to escalate it.