I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

YANBU to say you just wouldn't enjoy it.
YABVU to refer to anything other than a war as WW3.

The Manchester one is lovely, but the salad bar is the accompaniment to the meat courses

I would decline on those grounds.

Your manager is a tosser. Ignore. We run a business and obviously we would like employees to come to work socials but for a variety of reasons some staff decline and that’s fine, it’s optional.

HR Manager here.
This is totally inappropriate of the management! I would talk to your HR department and refer to the diversity and inclusion policy.
I Have a lot of veggie and vegan friends who would not want to go somewhere like this either - but I wouldn’t dream of asking them to. Nor would I dream of booking it for a work event for exactly the reasons you’ve said. Some people do not eat meat or certain meats for religious reasons.
Stand your ground op. Good luck.

I went recently, also vegetarian. There were 4 vegetarians and about 20 meat eaters.

I was presented with big skewers of various meat every 15 minutes right in my face that was bloody awful.
I declined quietly about 4 times.

The salad bar was ok, I ended up eating a plate full of salad and filled up with a bread roll. Came out hungry.

It’s really not for vegetarians.
Glad I wasn’t paying. (Work thing)

I think you're probably spot on there, OP.

There are some men for whom the ability to eat vast amounts of dead animal is a bit of a macho status thing, like red meat = big dick or something. They probably feel the same about the ability to drink vast amounts of alcohol, too.
And because men are less likely to have caring responsibilities, having what is essentially a work event outside of working hours probably won't inconvenience them at all.

I have the pleasure of working for an organisation that is very inclusive and has great family-friendly policies. One such policy is that work events happen in working hours, and if out of hours social events are arranged within teams, staff must not be pressurised to attend or excluded if they don't. I think a lot more organisations would do well to do similar.

No there is absolutely no way they can insist on a vegetarian or vegan going to a restaurant like that where you’re surrounded by meat at every turn. I’d go for the drinks and then give my apologies, got to go due to “a prior commitment I can’t get out of”. It’s not necessarily a legal inclusivity issue (some people think veganism is protected but I am not sure how true that is) but in this situation the manager is definitely being offensive and his attitude is verging on discrimination or bullying. You also don’t need to book a whole day off work to avoid a dinner 🤦🏻‍♀️

I know it’s not the same as religion but I had a coworker who could only go for evenings out to places that didn’t serve alcohol and we accommodated that every time, with some effort (happily).

While it's difficult to choose venues that suit all tastes, this is a particularly poor choice for a mixed group. It's very much a restaurant for fans of red meat, in vast quantities. Id stand your ground. I wouldn't be surprised if there's other people in the group who aren't keen, even for a meat eater it's pretty full on!
As others have said the salad bar isn't intended to be an alternative meal, it's very light as it's just meant to be sides to the meat.

I think your work is very tone deaf over this. Why choose such a blatantly non-inclusive place to eat? I'm not strictly veggie now, but was for many years, I still don't eat red meat and hate the smell. I wouldn't go to such a place. I think your manager is wrong to insist. Probably doesn't help that you're a woman, wonder if he'd take the same stance if you were a man?

@WineIsMyMainVice - as an HR person, would you even expect employees to have to attend an after-working hours social event to network with the "big bosses" ?

I gave up on all evening work events years ago, mainly due to them becoming alcohol fuelled b1tching sessions, which I just found boring.

I'd be furious if any manager of mine insisted I attend an evening event just to hob-nob

She already said:
^ I'd obviously be fine going to normal place and having a veggie option.
This does sound a bit precious I know, but it's the smell of the place too it just makes me nauseous. ^

I live in Manchester and I know the place you mean. There’s no way I’d book it for a work event without first checking that nobody was vegetarian! And there’s zero point you going there just for the salads and sides. Your manager is being a complete dick over this.

Thanks, can I ask what your stance would be on the horse racing? That's during my contracted hours, but I would be able to work from home. I really ethically don't want to go/in anyway support the industry.

I know the sort of restaurant you mean and they are absolutely not catering to vegetarians in any way! Yes there is a salad bar, but it is just that. And if you are vegetarian, have sticks of meat waved in front of you every five minutes is really awful.
I presume from the 'it's in Manchester' comment you are not, so going for drinks before or after might not be convenient.
I would reiterate that you won't be going. Their choice of restaurant is not suitable for vegetarians. You haven't complained about this or tried to make them change plans, but you won't be attending. If they really wanted you there they would have chosen another restaurant. Which would be literally any other restaurant!

Sounds like a Game Of Thrones banquet. And they never end well.. The smell would have me heaving op...
Don't bend your moral compass for the bullies op. Stay at work til 5 and go home.

That is not at all what the OP said. Read it again. And google Fazenda Manchester.

Like you, OP, I would refuse to go to the restaurant and I'd also refuse to go to the horseracing event.
HR for both - its not inclusive and its not ethical to pressure employees to attend with threats.
There are a wealth of 'team building' things to do that don't entail animal cruelty, and a ton of places to eat in Manchester that aren't all about meat.
Is the manager trying to ease you out? Pick on you as you're the only female? Because it could be construed that way.

I think it would depend on the individual facts of each situation. But the company's behaviour in this scenario is just silly. Totally not worth the risk imo.

I wouldn’t go either. I would enjoy watching them try to make me. Get everything in writing.

It sounds like your team and yourself have very different values.

I think the restaurant thing is really bad, so many other choices.

Horse racing. No you shouldn't have to participate in it if you disagree (personally it's one of my favourite days out) but if clients are going too you might be in a difficult position.

If it's a team day then just decline.

OP are you client facing?

Having been a vegetarian for the last 35 years, I initially thought you were BU and a bit precious because I have never come across this type of place. However, having researched what this restaurant actually is, I have changed my mind. YANBU.

I would be fine going to e.g. a steakhouse or similar and just eating from the salad bar, because even though it might not be my choice of venue, sometimes you have to suck it up for the sake of being a team player etc. But this is a step too far, because I think it might make me feel physically sick. I wouldn't want to be around the carcasses, so the meat being carved etc. And someone saying that the meat fat was splashing on her plate was the final straw for me. I imagine the smell of the place is probably pretty nauseating as well.

I would be inclined to put something in writing to your manager, explaining that you want to be a team player and you would love to participate; that you are not precious about being a vegetarian and that you're perfectly happy to be around people eating meat; that you're flexible about where you eat and happy to accept that there might be limited options available to you on the menu; but that the carving at the table/presence of meat carcasses etc will make you feel extremely uncomfortable and potentially unwell. As such, if the meal cannot be moved to a more inclusive venue, you will respectfully offer your apologies on this occasion, though you would of course be happy to join the rest of the team for drinks before dinner.

Does the event at the horseracing venue involve actually attending a race day, or is it just that your company has booked a suite at the racecourse as a venue for a meeting/training event/away day?

Actually attending the race day.

What matters is whether your manager/s will think you’re unreasonable and whether you want to progress at the company. It sounds like they will think you’re in the wrong, so you need to ask yourself how much you care. How much you want to stay in the job?

it sounds like you have very different values so it’s probably best to get out before the relationship breaks down. Although I understand that’s often difficult.

frankly they sound like pricks.