I've caused WW3 at work - vegetarian

[Lazykitten]

I'm veggie. Nearly vegan but once in a blue moon eat cheese so don't refer to myself as that.

We have a team meal booked. In theory it's for us plebs as a thank you for hitting targets. In reality it's to network with the big bosses who comes up to celebrate with us.

Meal is booked in Manchester in the evening at a restaurant renowned for its meat. You don't order a meal, they just come round with sides of beef,lamb, pork etc every 5 minutes and carve at the table. I'm not going to eat this. Nor do I want to sit there surrounded by meat, its been so long since I've ate it the smell turns my stomach a little. Plus it's Manchester not exactly a small town so there was opportunity to book plenty of other nice restaurants. So I've said thank you but no thank you as I wouldn't enjoy it.

Team manager says I'm being ridiculous. That there's a salad bar. And if I don't come I'll need to book the day off as leave.

We've locked horns before as in the summer we had an event at a famous race course - one where there are often fatalities. I said I didn't want to go as I disagree with horse racing, he pushed me into it, so I went and felt awful. I'm not going this year so I'm going to have that battle coming up too.

I'm not a confrontational person so this is really upsetting me. I just wanted to quietly decline but now it's blown up and everyone seems to have an opinion.

Do you think I need to suck it up and go?

I'm vegetarian and I don't particularly want to be surrounded by meat, but I think we actually would have common ground on why I don't want to be around that quantity of dead animals and why it wouldn't bother you.

On the basis, I think we could happily share a meal in a normal restaurant where your plate was piled high with meat and mine was entirely plant-based. I think we would have respect for each other's beliefs. :)

I don't think the OP's colleagues have respect for her beliefs or for her as a person, and that's the real crux of the matter. A lot of the time, low level bullying comes out in team-based socials.

An absolutely ridiculous statement. Putting up with a nativity play is not a ‘vom’ situation. Watching dead animals being carved up for a non meat eater is potentially very much so-and I eat meat. I don’t go to work meals out and no one thinks I’m ‘difficult’ or not a team player because I work hard and get along with everyone. The OP isn’t insisting everyone abide by her meal choices so no comparison at all.

It's the stable lads and lasses who are probably closest of all to the horses and will be devastated going home with an empty stall in the lorry that I feel for, after the horses themselves.

By default, most vegetarians eat cheese.

It's not that it doesn't make sense, it just doesn't make sense to specify that.

Op said she's nearly vegan and sometimes eats cheese (again, paraphrased), which makes sense as it gives us a bit more information.

Yanbu. There's so many places to eat that caters for everyone it's just unnecessary to choose a meat orientated restaurant.

It seems a bit odd not to have considered the vegetarian option on what is a works' outing as there are a lot of vegetarians, however, and chosen a restaurant which would cater for that. HR is the place to go, you are being bullied by your boss. If it's a mandatory outing they should be catering for those who have special diets.

I'm with you over the meal.

I'm confused about the horse racing. You say a course where there are frequent fatalities but also say it is a summer meeting. Fatalities usually occur over hurdles races which are not run in the summer. It is increasingly unusual for courses to offer flat and hurdles.

You do realise that race horses are amongst the most looked after animals on the planet? I trust you also disapprove of boxing and cage fighting.

I'm not veggie (not by a long stretch, never likely to be) but OP, I'm on your side here. I can see that if you're a committed veggie seeing meat carved at the table where you are eating (and I know the kind of place you mean, it's very in your face) could be a bit much.

It's just not very kind of your boss. He should respect that you don't want to go, or arrange somewhere where any meat will arrive plated up and tucked behind chips and salad.

If it's one of the Brazilian Churrascaria places, they do loads and loads of interesting side dishes that you could pick a selection from to make a really nice veggie meal. I know you don't particularly want to look at great hunks of meat being carved in front of you, but unless you can persuade the entire team to go to a veggie/vegan restaurant (which you won't) you are going to be in close proximity to meat on someone's plate wherever you go.

I imagine someone who only ate halal or kosher would have the same problem, even though they might quite like to eat the meat, but couldn't. They can't really expect the whole team to go to a halal or kosher restaurant just because of them, but I wonder if they'd have grounds to argue they can't sit at a table where pork is being served, even if they aren't expected to eat it themselves?

I think the bosses are perfectly within their rights to stick to the chosen venue if it suits the vast majority, but they should also accept that some people won't be able to attend if it's not suitable due to matters of conscience or for religious reasons.

Just to add my experience of the place, my veggie boss took us there - she’s lovely and thought the team world like it. I felt so sorry for her as the meat carver leaned over her a couple of times and actually dropped meat/ dripped meat juice on her plate. You’re right not to go. Hope you get sorted.

I would be in heaven with this sort of place as I'm so very much a carnivore. (I should describe myself as an omnivore but I like meat too much....)

That said I completely respect your choice and would, as others have suggested, ensure that a place catered to everyone and didn't blatantly disrespect participants.

You could rise above it all and counter your manager's comments saying that you will be happy to cover office duties while the rest scarper off.

Its not just the on course fatalities, its what is done with the horses that don't make the grade or can no longer race. Its not called an "industry" for nothing. So far as I am aware, only humans box or cage fight and they choose to do so, but as an aside, no I would not support those activities either. WARNING TRIGGERING LINK https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

while I can understand your view, they too are earning a living from racing and I understand that many of them want to be jockeys.

I think your boss is being a complete bully. You should complain to HR. How dare he disrespect your choices and then insist you take a day off. He likely knows he can get away with it since you find confrontation difficult. No one should ever have to attend work events outside of normal working hours if they don't want. Irrespective of the reason. I'm fuming for you, but I'd tell him so it wouldn't happen to me.

You do realise that race horses are amongst the most looked after animals on the planet? I trust you also disapprove of boxing and cage fighting

I do wish MNers would stop using the patronising "you do realise".

For what it's worth I DO disapprove of boxing and cage fighting - and fox hunting, which we all know still happens.

I know you don't particularly want to look at great hunks of meat being carved in front of you, but unless you can persuade the entire team to go to a veggie/vegan restaurant (which you won't) you are going to be in close proximity to meat on someone's plate wherever you go.

@TwigletsAndRadishes, there is a huge difference between going to a normal restaurant where people eat meat and going to a restaurant which is all about the meat.

I genuinely couldn't care less if I'm with someone eating a big juicy steak or whatever. It doesn't bother me at all, and of course I wouldn't expect anyone to change what they eat because of my dietary preferences.

But carving up carcasses in front of me is different - especially if this is being done repeatedly throughout the meal. My own extended family is half veggie/half carnivore. If they have a roast, they carve it away from the main table so that the rest of us don't have to look at it.

The OP isn't asking others to go to a veggie/vegan restaurant. She is just asking to go to a normal restaurant where they don't make such a show of the meat, or to be excused from the meal because the venue makes her uncomfortable. I really don't think that's unreasonable.

This has to be one of the most bizarre bits of pedantry I’ve seen on MN.

Except they’re not carving up a ‘carcass’.

If you think they bring a whole cow to carve on your table then buy a clue,

Have you looked at the menu? They do vegetarian and vegan main meals, and lots of sides (I quite fancy the black truffle and wild mushroom risotto). Tell your boss to order you something from there.

I would rather that they didn't carve up anything at my table. A few people have already mentioned the issue around meat fat splashing on vegetarians' plates, then there is the spectacle of them carving up big hunks of meat, the smell etc. And not even just once at the beginning of the meal but several times over.

It is not an environment that I would want to be in, and I certainly wouldn't be willing to eat there. I wouldn't judge others for going there at all - fine if they enjoy it. But I would object to being coerced into going to a venue that would make me feel uncomfortable and potentially unwell.

Managers way to get around all of the questions about why OP isn’t there is clearly by saying she had booked the day off as annual leave. That is the only explanation I can think of that he’s telling her if she doesn’t attend she has to book it off.

I can't understand why if you leave work a four ish and you go to the drinks you should have to book a holiday day. Other than that they can book anywhere and if you can't/ don't want to go both ways are legit. In my mind any reason would suffice for me for not going to the meal.

This. I also can’t stand the smell or look of meat. I don’t care what others and it’s not personal or cultural, I was bought up eating meat, but it revolts me.

@RazzlePuff I am "gluten free" (as you put it) and I do insist that everything I eat is safe for me. All my choices from the menu have to be both NGCI and not cross contaminated. It's that or I don't go/bring a pack up. I'm used to food events not being inclusive now. I don't think you can compare medical dietary needs with choices/preferences/beliefs where the person won't become ill as a result of the food in question.

Aw, that's kinda mean and unfair. I hate people who unethically wield power like that.