To feel like it’s sometimes better to stay in a relationship that’s a bit crap

[Thecatisannoying]

I’m not getting on terribly well with my partner at the moment. He isn’t abusive (and I need to be clear I’m not talking about abusive relationships, they are different) but he is lazy, I don’t always find him pleasant, he doesn’t help much and a long list of whinges.

I know ideally I’d leave and the kids would spend a day or so a week with him. They’d understand and respect all the work I do and be grateful I modelled boundaries to them. Or something.

The reality I think would be DH sees them a day or so a week and he just lets them do what they want, eat sweets and ice creams all day, no teeth brushing, no encouragement of other things then screens, consequently they think DH is amazing and dislike the boring parent who tried to get them to eat vegetables and have a bedtime.

Then it has a knock on effect on other aspects of their life. I would have to work FT so they’d be in after school clubs / FT childcare. I’m always tired and stressed, money is tight, relationships with grandparents are strained, I could go on but I’m sure you get the picture.

Obviously where abuse is a factor it’s different but sometimes … AIBU to think it’s better to stay in a slightly crap marriage?

@Thepeopleversuswork So, in essence, only choose a rich man because there's no point to them otherwise? Wowser.
You do know this is 2024 and women can work too?

@Sooooootired01 I think the point is that men used to provide 100% financially and contribute very little at home (that was the compromise) but now it is more like 50% financial contribution but the women are still doing 100% childcare, 100% housework and still expected to pay half of the bills as well.

You have completely missed the point of my post. I am saying women are far better off supporting themselves than relying on a man’s money. Ideally a woman should be entirely financially self sufficient. I realise that isn’t possible for many women. But if women set themselves up to support themselves before they had a family the financial considerations would be a moot point.

The point I was trying to make was that until fairly recently financial independence from men was off limits for most women. Nowadays it’s not. And thus the logic of integrating a man into the family (unless he is genuinely supportive which most aren’t) is starting to diminish.

@Thepeopleversuswork Men are basically just better off as sperm donors and not fathers then?
Or actually no - not that. I don't think sperm donors have to pay maintenance?

@Thepeopleversuswork i so wonder if we’ll evolve to this eventually. Hard to say. Certainly plummeting birth rates are indicative of a sea change but how much of that is due to feminism I cannot say.

In a majority of cases yes I think they are. Not all for sure. But I think they need to meet a very high threshold.

@Thepeopleversuswork I suppose it depends what women want?
My first husband was very wealthy but I was expected to do 99% of the childcare when we were together because that's "women's work". Yes I didn't "have" to keep my career but thank God I did. Provider yes - good husband/-father - no. We had a nice home and lovely things. I was incredibly lonely and desperately unhappy.
My second husband is far from wealthy - works ft in social care. We both work to provide for our little one (quite rightly). We can't afford luxuries but nobody goes without.
He is an exceptional dad who spends a huge amount of quality time with his family and enjoys doing so. He sees me as an equal and we work solidly as a team. We laugh daily and enjoy each other's company.
If women on MN are being totally honest - and I mean genuinely - I have a feeling they would have opted for Husband A?

@Sooooootired01 Nope, husband B obviously, but many don’t have that, you are v fortunate.

@Wantitnicearoundme My ex thinks I'm absolutely off my tree; my husband earns not a huge amount more than minimum wage, don't you know? He's not a "man!" A "man" is someone who is the sole provider. A "man" earns at least 5k p/m.
Sadly I think some women still support this notion in 2024.

I can only speak personally and I would definitely want Husband B. The idea of dependence on a man for money scares the Bejesus out of me and honestly I don’t generally find rich men attractive, they scare me a bit as they always want control.

But I think there are a lot of men who present as Husband B and talk a very progressive talk but actually turn out to be cocklodgers who have yoked their wagon to a financially driven woman. Yours doesn’t sound like that but I know a lot of women in relationships with men who are very good at play acting as progressive, chilled dads but contribute fuck all financially.

I think the thing is men still haven’t really evolved yet to take account of feminism and and awful lot of them see it as an opportunity to kick back and do less in the domestic sphere while also paying less. So in financial security is your thing then a Husband B may not really deliver the goods.

What I keep coming back to is that it’s just a mistake ever to rely on them for anything, particularly money. Have them or don’t have them but don’t build your life and your kids lives around reliance on them.

So is it about fear that your children would love their father more?

@Thepeopleversuswork Agree with you on a lot of this; rich men give me the ick, but that's probably a lot to do with personal experience of them.
I recommend getting married in later life tbh.
When I met my now husband I was 36 and had put my life back together after a very, very difficult divorce. Privately renting a place in a nice village and entirely self-sufficient (much to the surprise of my loaded ex who was shocked money wasn't enough to keep me).
But the big difference was I wanted a husband rather than needed one. I didn't need one from a financial pov, that was for sure. I had the maturity and wisdom I most definitely didn't have at 24. This time around I wasn't going to put up with any crap! If you can't tick the boxes, jog on mate. Not interested!
It's worked incredibly well for me 😀

Plummeting birth rates are easily offset by immigration. No reason to panic.

@Rosindub no. It feels like a question designed to be antagonistic to be honest. It doesn’t take an expert in psychology to be able to understand that a child who has positive and loving relationships with both parents is going to be in a strong position in later life.

When you have one patent doing 95% of the work including the planning and organising that parent is more likely to be the one that displays tiredness and irritation. By contrast parent B might appear patient and calm and fun. Obviously children gravitate to parent B, but the problem is the person they think their parents are isn’t a true reflection. I thought my dad was amazing until he moved in with another woman a few weeks after we buried my mum.

In the hypothetical event of a split I actually don’t think DH would have the children together. Which would be even more damaging. As it is I already worry one child is becoming ‘his’ while the other is ‘mine’ but hard to know what to do about this.

In my specific situation there have been a couple of things where if we didn’t have children I would have ended the relationship. They aren’t abusive just things that to me are not someone I’d want to spend my life with. But since we do have children and young children at that, I am persevering and trying my best.

Ah you’re definitely being antagonistic. I couldn’t give a shit about plummeting birth rates or immigration. I was talking to another poster about something clearly your little mind couldn’t comprehend

I think this probably is a factor in falling birth rates. Women have choices now which they didn’t have 60 years ago and if having lots of children limits your opportunities few would willingly choose this.

But the Right wing rhetoric (of the sort being peddled by Miriam Cates and Danny Kruger) has this arse about face. If people really want to tackle falling indigenous birth trends they need to stop trying to persuade women to want an ersatz 1950s setup which didn’t really exist, based around women as homemakers and men as providers, and start incentivising men to meet women half way and acknowledge their roles in the family. It’s not possible to simply wind the clock back.

@Sooooootired01

I agree with you on marrying late as well. Young marriage is rarely a positive thing for women. It limits them so much.

Yes indeed.

As a very vague unstudied anecdote 😆 my NCT group first time round consisted of six women and only two of us (one being me!) went on to have a second. I don’t think that was a choice for everybody in the interests of fairness but there is certainly more of an inclination to either not have children at all or to stay at one, which doesn’t of course ‘replace’ us at a population level.

I have to say OP, I've really enjoyed reading all your posts on this thread. They have all been very level headed, calm and thought provoking. I've found myself hitting the Thanks button quite a lot and I rarely use it normally!

It depends how bad. I'd respect has gone it's a downhill Slide to inevitable separation. If there is still respect then it can be worked on.

You only have to look at any dating thread on here to find women who support that notion, and insult other women who don't measure a man's worth in his wallet as having a "low bar". Which in turn conditions men to find self-validation in their salary rather than their capacity to be a good partner/father/person. It can be uncomfortably tied to their masculinity.

There was a thread where a poster didn't know what to do about her (obviously controlling and snobbish) mother who kept telling her that her fiance didn't earn enough, and the majority of responses were along the lines of "well your mother's right".

FWIW I agree with @Thepeopleversuswork about self-sufficency. My perspective is that being child-free has been an unintentional superpower in terms of finding a good man, because I didn't need one to have kids with and under no time pressure at all. So I could actually assess whether any given man actually enhanced my life as opposed to things like wanting to build a family, which cloud a lot of women's vision. (My other unintentional superpower was being such a slattern that no man could have possibly expected me to look after any of the cleaning and cooking for him.)

Many times I wish I’d married a poor man 😆 Stay with me.

When I met DH, I didn’t know the first thing about his industry still don’t and while I gleaned he probably wasn’t poor I thought he probably earned a similar amount to me, which at the time was just under £50,000. DH earns well but not at MN six figure salary. At the time he was on about £80,000, closer to 90 with an annual bonus. Now that’s 90 closer to 100 with an annual bonus - and with two little children people can probably deduce why that’s potentially problematic.

In the meantime my salary has gone down considerably because as well as only working three days (I am currently on maternity leave still) I also relinquished a position of responsibility. While this was undoubtedly the right move for the family as a whole it has meant I am part time so responsible for the drudgery stuff and while I am in three days a week I still really have five days of a job, if that makes sense. But I’m only paid for three days 😩 So my salary is now less than £30,000 (it’s actually sweet FA at the moment!) but I do still work but get hammered for the out of work stuff too.

DH does undoubtedly work hard but I’m certainly feeling unappreciated and criticised unfairly a lot of the time.

Well thank YOU, as that genuinely is really lovely to read.

I stayed with my partner until he died unexpectedly.My adult children knew how difficult the relationship and finances were even though I didn't discuss it. My oldest son recently referred to how generous his father had been to them.The generosity came from the fact that he stole from me regularly whilst I paid all the bills.
In my case the Disney aspect has never ended.
I'd prioritize having a normal living relationship and if you can't have that with your husband work towards having it with someone else.Life is so short and we all deserve happiness.
In my case I chose to stay with him for the sake of the children.A year on from his death i'm still playing the role of a grieving widow and I'm eaten up inside.Look after yourself and if you're happy things fall into place.

@Thecatisannoying I agree, interesting to read this thread, thank you, I think lots are in the same situation.

Did the problems begin after children or were there before?