To not send my child to nursery at all?

[Nilin]

Our childcare is currently covered by DH and I both working part time, plus grandparents.
We had intended to send our DC to nursery in January 2025, at age 3, for 2-3 days a week.
We have been trying since January to find her a nursery place thinking a year's notice would be enough- we were very wrong!
A lot of nurseries reported no places until 2026, only taking full-time, etc etc.
There are about 8 nurseries within a 30 minute walking distance and they are all a no, so had to widen search to one we could drive to.
We have had just one offer us a viewing- it's hard though as obviously I feel obliged to take it as we don't have another choice! It's going to be really awkward though when we work from home and commute by public transport when we do go in, to then get her in the car to get to nursery to then drive home and then head into work.
I did want DC to be able to socialise and make friends, but I'm now wondering if there would be any harm in just continuing our current arrangement until she goes to school? We go on lots of days out but we don't really meet up with children the same age. I could make more of an effort to attend a local playgroup regularly though so she is seeing the same people. I'm just keen to do right by her really.

It'll differ region to region, but my DC went to nursery for childcare. They also went to preschool for the year prior to starting primary school.

Preschool was 26 children with I think 1 teacher and 3 classroom assistants. P1 is 30 children with 1 teacher and 1 classroom assistant.

Preschool gave more time for settling, and had lower expectations in terms of following classroom rules. They expected DC to be able to use the toilet but would help where necessary (i.e. help wiping after a poo!), obviously school doesn't do that.

Preschool changed the routine around meals each term so they started just sitting at the table and by the end they were setting the table, carrying a tray of food over and clearing away. Primary school was straight to the dinner hall.

Preschool was solely learning through play, with a small amount of phonics and writing in the final term for DC that showed an interest. Primary school was straight into formal learning (in a fun way, but the phonics started quickly).

That's before we consider all the socialising, negotiating they do with each other when playing. Those are skills to be learned as well.

Preschool is education.

Not sure about the easier run in. Thinking about my GC starting nursery was mum going in with them for settling in a couple of times for an hour or two then in fulltime. Four years later starting school there was 2 weeks of mornings only (some kids did afternoons so half a class) then a week of half days plus lunch and then if they were ready all day which was 9 till 3 when nursery was more like 8 till 6. Reception seemed a much gentler start to the point that parents with kids who'd been to nursery were thoroughly frustrated.

Primary school nursery and pre-school is that not different words for the same thing?

They expected DC to be able to use the toilet but would help where necessary (i.e. help wiping after a poo!), obviously school doesn't do that. Given how many reception teachers are saying more and more children are starting school in nappies I'm not sure that is correct to say school doesn't do that.

Depends were you are. I'm Scotland schools have pretty much dropped the half days.
My youngest started in 2021, transition was 45mins in the playground in June.
9.15-2.30 on Monday in August and full-time from then on 9.00-3.00.

I think that would be pretty tough on kids who'd never been in any sort of nursery/ preschool.

I was comparing starting school nursery at 3 with starting Reception at 4. Not starting a private nursery at 1, because the OP’s child is already older than that.

And schools have mostly dropped the ludicrously long settling in periods now because it wasn’t benefitting the children or parents. When my DD started in 2022 she had 3 half days then straight into normal school days.

I’m biased as I taught school nursery (and Reception) for years. I was really keen for my daughter to attend a school nursery setting herself, and in particular the one at our catchment school (which I absolutely love and would choose for her anyway) to make the transition easier. On starting reception you absolutely could tell the difference between those who attended a school nursery setting, a private nursery and those who had not attended any setting at all. However, it did tend to balance out eventually so I don’t think that should be your main motivating factor - still it does make things easier for them in the short term if they’ve some experience of a setting other than home/ family.

I do always forget that not everywhere has the same school nursery system though - I grew up and taught in an area where it was very much the norm and where we live now it’s not quite as much a ‘given’ but about half the schools do have a nursery attached. If the one near you is a maintained/ local authority one then there will be an application process (and deadline) through your local council website and it won’t really be up to the school in terms of what they prioritise - if they offer both full and part time places then those will be filled according to the admissions criteria. We were offered a full time place but as DD had only just turned 3 we chose to only send her 4 days - she actually settled fine and loves it but I’m keeping my Fridays with her as long as I can! The school were incredibly accommodating and basically said as long as we tell them what’s happening it’s entirely up to us, but also if we ever do need childcare on a Friday she can go in as the place is there. I have to say the schools I taught in were not quite as flexible and were of the mind that if you took a time place you should use it.

My daughter has been going to dance classes since before she turned 3, I thought that they would be a bit of an informal toddler free for all really but when we turned up for our trial session they were actually quite structured. She seemed to love it though so we’ve stuck with it, and she learned a lot about following instructions and routines there. Maybe there’s something like that your daughter could try - whether it be dance, football, rugbytots etc?

Definitely make the effort to go to regular playgroups and toddler groups if you can - although I’ve found with the ones near me that although they’re open to any preschool children, there’s more 2 and unders there as the 3 year olds start nursery/ mums go back to work. We were still attending one on a Friday but it’s literally all babies now so we stopped.

I think there’s so much to be said for what parents/ grandparents can give a child and certainly don’t think formal childcare is the be all and end all. Even though it’s only 9-3.15 4 days a week for DD I wasn’t quite prepared for how much it feels like my baby is already ‘in the system’. She loves it and is thriving but I do sometimes feel like we forget she’s still only 3.

Either -

This conversation never happened.

or

The teacher was complementing your DC on their brightness.

or

The teacher was an idiot.

As just because your DC learned so much in a term, and may have had parents who were engaged with them in their early years that they were able to get on so well joining in year 3, this doesn’t mean it would be every child’s experience.

I think for the vast majority joining school at age 8 would be a massive shock to them, and there would be a considerable proportion who couldn’t read or write. If the teacher really meant what she said, she’s doing her KS1 colleagues a massive disservice as it must be one of the most challenging jobs ever.

Its long since I saw a neatly overview on schooling in Europe, but I think that pretty much all Europe apart from the UK has children starting school at the age of 6-7 years. Before that there are options of nursery schools /or whatever the name for ages 3-6, not sure if other countries have different types of facilieties called different names, mine doesnt/. In many countries there are state run nursery schools, with places available to most children who want to attend them.

My understanding is that until then the children go to kindergarten type settings where they learn through play - not terribly far removed from the first couple of years of primary school in my part of the UK, and presumably other parts too.

Just because it's not called school, doesn't mean the DC are at home or not learning and socialising with other DC.

Also, again, for OP it really only matters what the expectations are for the actual classroom her DC will find himself in.

It's a typical point to enter the education system in 2024. 20 years ago, reception was the standard entry point, 20 years before that it was year 1 (although we did have "playschool" in the mornings from age 4-5 I think?)

I know there's been a lot of change regarding free hours recently, so I might be out of date - 5 years ago you were only entitled to 30 hours of preschool if you were working (it was only 15 hours otherwise) which suggests there is a childcare component.

But essentially, I don't like the idea that parents are increasingly being told they can't provide adequately for their own young children. Mine loved preschool, I was happy to send them, but they didn't NEED it.

Whilst it is true that in Scandinavian countries they don't start 'school' until 6 - most will have been in childcare since early (after 1 year or so), so this is not fully true (at least in my experience of both Denmark and Finland).

Well it did happen and the teacher was highly regarded and don't think she was an idiot. Was she complementing my child? I'm not sure, she did seem to genuinely question her career in reception, of course she had chosen to move to older children so maybe she was disillusioned/burnt out with reception anyway and he just gave her a focus. Regardless of all that not going to nursery/pre school/keystage 1 has had no illeffects, his best friend since they met at school when they were eight did the more normal route and they are very similar in academic and career success, happy relationships with young children. My point is in the end it didn't make any real difference so people putting pressure on the OP about how her child is missing out, will find starting school so hard, won't be sociable etc isn't fair or accurate. She will be fine.

Sorry just to add I forgot your last bit about the teachers attitude to keystage 1 teachers, she had always taught reception, the year my son started she had asked to move to keystage 2, I don't think she was being in anyway dismissive of her colleagues in keystage 1, she was just surprised at how quickly an 8 year old picked up things compared to 4 year olds. As i said above she was perhaps burnt out with reception and he just became a sort of symbol of that.

This! So much this. I get so annoyed by people saying that in Scandinavian (or other parts of the world) children don't start school until much later. This might be true, but a lot of EYFS is very play based which is practically the same as what they do in other countries - they just don't call it school.

The 1970s had a "playschool" movement which were run between volunteers (mums on a rota) and qualified staff. Usually a few mornings per week.
So their has been a recognition for the last 50 years that children benefit from some sort independent group learning before school.

But OP has a DC in 2024, not 20 years ago. I wouldn't want my DC to be the only one going to their first setting outside the home in a class of 30. Expectations are likely higher on DC these days in terms of managing their belongings and the like because most have already had at least a year's practice.

But then we all know what we're familiar with and going straight from home to school certainly wasn't the norm when I was growing up 40 years ago in Ireland so I have my own biases.

If OP's DC does start school without any preschool then I'm sure he'll find his way and settle but personally I would prefer a more gentle year first.

Where I live the 2 non-state preschools closed last year due to the funding gap caused by the "free" hours expansion.
Now the only one left is attached to a primary school, so there's been a huge drop in provision in just the last year.

When I started school you started school in the term you were 5, so I started in September but some kids started in January and some after the Easter holidays. Some summer babies didn't start till the following September so they missed reception completely. We all just accept what is happening around us as normal, I'm sure people wouldn't think that system was ideal now.

I have to say I do remember the disruption as the class gradually got bigger was quite disruptive but with big classes, I was in a class of 48 and no TAs back in the 50s, so the first tern was nice with a smaller group. When I look back I don't know how the teacher coped although it was normal for the year 6 kids to come and help at times which was great fun.

But OP has a DC in 2024, not 20 years ago. I wouldn't want my DC to be the only one going to their first setting outside the home in a class of 30. Expectations are likely higher on DC these days in terms of managing their belongings and the like because most have already had at least a year's practice

I think you have summed it up well. The expectation will be higher. I wouldn't want my kids not to have that early years experience.
It's not just the education, it's the interaction with peers.

Well until relatively recently it was expected that children were toilet trained before starting in reception, teachers increasingly report children starting school in nappies so not sure the expectations are higher.

@Iwasafool were the massive classes in the 40s and 50s not a combination of shortage of teachers (men called up for service) and then men returning from war resulting in the baby boom.

I bet people didn't really think it was ideal then either. But it's what was on offer.

Scotland changed to single intake into P1 in the around 1974.

Personally I think spending time with children his own age has been massive for DS.

Well really you aren't compared like with like.
Children in the 40s and 50s with special needs were not put in mainstream schools, special schools were there for a reason. But that provision has been cut beyond the bone so what else are parents to do?

I'm not one to say that socialising with other children and the activities in nursery are definitely needed but I would say that nursery is good for having a routine (even just one day a week) and for helping children to follow instructions in group settings etc. It prepares them for school without them having to learn skills like reading and counting etc.
But what a nightmare you are having! Sounds very difficult.