Me vs SiL - the most underwhelming of battles.

[Lwrenn]

Backstory & buckle up, it's a long one!
More wwyd than aibu but I'm confused af with this. Anyhow.

Bil is pretty awesome and so are his gorgeous wee boys. Bil and I have always had a close friendship. He not only is a terrific uncle to his birth related nephews but also adores my oldest dc. Also a lad.
When he met sil I was so happy, she was everything he wanted, she adores him, he adores her, they went on to have 2 perfect wee boys. Our boys all adore one another.
But after her last lad (they only want 2 kids, they were blessed) she was upset she'd never have "her girl" and wasn't exactly quietly hurt about it, instead more outwardly furious. She went from being very sweet to disappointed with most things and with that became passive aggression with everything. We were close, neither of us talk to MiL due to her being a deranged lunatic towards us, so we had some solidarity. We also babysat as often as they wanted, from newborn age until toddler age before sils parents moved closer to be on hand, so we see the boys less now but her parents are lovely and involved and its nice for them all. Now, last year I had my final baby and all the way through she kept saying I'd have another boy, I agreed, having had 3 already I just presumed that also. But I didn't, I had a girl.
She hasn't spoken to me, blocked dp from fb and when bil came to see his niece and sent a selfie she went apeshit at him, saying he was rubbing in her face the one thing she'd never had.
I said to him when she comes round she's a niece who will adore her and she can hopefully have some relationship with when she's ready. I left it at that.
I'm possibly being insensitive but I've struggled with baby loss and awful pregnancies etc, she had 2 wonderful pregnancies, no issues with conceiving, both pregnancies first month off pill, I think she's had it pretty good so I'm not begging her to accept my daughter, she can do one, my wee girl has all the love in the world, sil isn't hugely relevant to my 8 month old.

Now, here is where a problem has risen, I'm a sen mum with 2 (likely 3 but 2 diagnosed asd kiddos) and her youngest is showing neurospicy signs.
Not only am I sen mum, but I've worked with sen so I'm a good person to give support and a handhold whilst going through the process of getting a diagnosis and also little suggestions to help with things, so she's asked bil can i talk to her and go through things with her from visual aids and prompts, how to use social stories and fill out paperwork for her dc. All of which I'm happy to do, i have tons of books and other things here that would be useful to her. Plus, I'm not mad at seeing her, like I say - we were quite close.
But here is the thing, it's on the provision I don't even mention my daughter as she couldn't cope with it.
I'm not to even say her name, if my phone screen has her picture I'm to change it before going over to help her.

Because this is to help DN, I'll probably do it. Plus sen mum is a scary water to navigate alone at first, I feel I should comply to her rules and not upset her, but also, I feel like I'm shunning my own DD.
Like I say, it's not like she's lost a baby or is trying with no luck for another, she just didn't get the "daughter she envisaged".

Wise ones of mumsnet, wwyd?

Love this response.

Nope. She's totally out of order.

Tell her to get fucked. This sort of self absorbed wallowing is just ridiculous and I wouldn’t do her any favours.

My Pil never see his aunty and it was all to do with their Sil having a girl baby and bringing her to my DH's 6th birthday party! He's 58 now and they are all still alive and it's still awkward!

This stuff lingers if not dealt with at the start, already far too much drama from the sil.

I've been thinking about this, frankly it's a bit hard not to it's so crazy. Since you used to be fairly close I'm wondering if it's worth writing her a heartfelt letter. Something about how much you miss the way things used to be and what a great auntie she is, and how you do understand why she's upset but it's really not okay to pretend your daughter doesn't exist and please get some help so that you can be a family again.

I can't do better than this.

Don't lose sleep over your DN. Yes, you'd be in a great position to hold your SIL's hand if she was functioning like a normal human being, but she's not and it's too much.

There's plenty of information and support out there for parents of children with SEN if they know where to look (as you already know), and if she's got two hands and an internet-enabled device she's more than capable of finding it all by herself.

Neurospicy is a phrase that’s been gaining in traction in recent months. I’m in lots of autistic community groups and it’s every bloody where.

Honestly, I hate the word with every cell in my body 😂 But if OP likes it then it’s up to her.

I think my main objection to it is that I’m seeing it used as a buzz word. One of these phrases that people latch on to in such a way that it becomes meaningless.

For example, queer is now used for so much more than describing sexuality or even trans identities. It’s gone from being a derogatory phrase to a trend buzz word that’s used so widely it’s virtually meaningless (for example Jameela Jamil describing herself as queer because she claims she “fancies everyone” despite only ever having heterosexual relationships).

Neurospicy is entering the same sort of territory. It might mean you’re autistic, ADHD etc but not yet diagnosed, but some people are using it as they have a few selected traits of autism. Or just because they feel a bit different to the average neurotypical person.

It’s dangerously close to the absolute bollocks that is the “everyone is a little bit autistic” that gets spouted.

Autism and ADHD etc is still very under-diagnosed, especially in women and girls. But it’s harmful to the community when anyone who feels a bit different decides to label themselves as neurodivergent if it’s not actually the case. What happens is a whole heap of behaviours get attributed to neurodivergence when it’s nothing to do with that. It happens here on MN constantly - so many snide comments about how many people are autistic while simultaneously talking about how unpleasant ND are. And usually, the things that are being discussed are NOTHING to do with neurodivergence.

I’m seeing neurospicy used as this kind of generic descriptor that’s being applied widely, regardless of whether people are genuinely neurodivergent. Honestly it’s just fucking annoying and also feels a bit twee and cutesy. Lots of teens/women in their early 20s in particular use the word on social media. I think seeing it tossed around constantly without any meaning has just made me detest the phrase 😂

I’m not criticising OP for using it though. I can see why some people are drawn to it as a descriptor - I’m just a grumpy old woman these days 😂

For context, I’m autistic/ADHD with two autistic DC, one with high needs, which is why this stuff really matters to me.

Do not dance to the crazy tune. Don’t do it.
She can have another baby if she wants to, it’s not your problem she is eaten up with jealousy.

Step away. Celebrate your daughter at every opportunity.

@Lwrenn your SIL is an utter cow and a cheeky fucker to boot! She's treated you and your dd appallingly, wants your help but is still trying to dictate to and force conditions on you giving that help, she's living in cuckoo land if she thinks thats gonna fly!

OP you have been very niave and a doormat. Your SIL is behaving this way because no one is challenging her and telling her straight she's massively out of line, instead you're all panding to her. Would you pander to a toddler tantrum? Of course not and at least a toddler doesn't have the capacity or self awareness to understand that tantrums aren't acceptable behaviour an adult does and should know better.

Your sil's jealousy and resentment over not having a daughter of her own isn't your problem, its hers and whilst I'm sure she's hurting it doesn't excuse her nasty behaviour.

Like fuck would I help her out after how she has behaved, I would be telling both her and bil to find their own help because I'm not prepared ro give it after that, if you help her out OP you are basically rewarding her horrible behaviour she will continue to behave like this and it will get worse and worse because as the years go on because it gets her what she wants.

I would send a text to sil and bil saying that given how she has behaved you will not be helping and tell them to find their own damn help and if SIL kicks off thats tough actions have consequences. Then disengage with her OP no phone calls, texts etc until she sorts her attitude out. Also remember you haven't caused this, SIL has, you had no control on dd's gender its a 50/50 chance ffs!

I agree. Anyone can refer to them & theirs in whatever way they like, but if anyone referred to my son as 'neurospicy' I'd tell them exactly where to go. To reduce his huge issues & how difficult all our lives are to a a pseudo pop-culture phrase you might get in a red-top is completely insulting to me. Our lives are so difficult every day, not hot, or exciting, or exotic, or any other connotation of spicy.

You do you, OP, but please don't refer to others as such.

What worries me, though, is what on earth is going to happen when there is some sort of family get-together like Christmas or a significant birthday. What will your SIL do then? Demand that you don’t attend so she doesn’t have to see your daughter? Madness!!

Couldn’t agree more! Oh and I love your username 😄

She should be grateful to have had 2 healthy pregnancies that led to two children. What a selfish , self centred bitch. And yes that's probably my pregnancy hormones going apeshit. Tell her to grow the hell up!

She either accepts your help with none of these preposterous 'provisions,' or she expect no help at all. And just for the hell of it, talk about your DD all you want in front of her!

I'd be inclined to think any genetic flags are on your brother's side - this is his biological sister, yes? - it must have occurred to you both, surely? I'd treat her as ND and do the paperwork without comment. I know how hard it is. At some point, at the ADOS/DISCO or when she reviews things herself, the penny might drop.

Nope. She is married to OP’s DH’s brother.
From the OP:
BIL and I have always had a close friendship. He not only is a terrific uncle to his birth related nephews but also adores my oldest dc.
When he met sil I was so happy, she was everything he wanted, she adores him, he adores her, they went on to have 2 perfect wee boys

Ah, okay. Thanks for confirming.

What do your MIL/FIL say about it? I really, really hope they're not supporting this rudeness.

Reminds me of a family friend who agreed to come round when I was staying with my mum's for a week when pregnant, but told her he didn't want to spend the whole time talking about my pregnancy. Nobody mentioned it at all. I felt it was so rude. I should have said something but I was waiting to see if either of them would. I was 7 months gone, and huge, so it was obvious. It seemed so rude to me. But, in her usual fashion, my mother put my feelings below everyone else's.

"I would love to help you with this but those conditions do not work for me." And leave her to it.

Here are my views on why I actually like "neurospicy".
Since its become a thing.

Lots of people who haven't received official a diagnosis are still living with the same struggles as those who have been diagnosed officially. Those people can't say, "I have autism" because no doubt someone will jump down their throat regarding an official diagnosis or "statemented" as it were a long time ago. Those people still deserve to be included for their struggles. Sure some people might slip through riding the wave of neurodiverse struggles, but unless you're that person's psychiatrist then you probably aren't the best person to worry about it. I'm not going to dismiss the struggles of anyone who belongs under the neurodiverse umbrella because someone may have it worse. Its why "neurospicy" is inclusive, its not saying your problems are lesser than someone else's because someone is a korma and another a vindaloo, its all spice, we're all in it together.

If you dislike the word because you feel it minimises the plight of your individual circumstance or that of your loved ones, then that's how you feel. As someone with a child who is in a specialist school, who will never live independently, who will attack me without warning, who's life will always be riddled with anxiety because the world isn't designed for him, I'm not going to not let others with less severe behaviours "join our club", because they have it easier, because it doesn't work like that. I could moan about more palatable autism being tolerated, maybe those wearing "neurospicy" red shirts when my child is chewing his clothes and sometimes likes to strip off altogether. But I accept its a spectrum, I feel that everyone who struggles on that spectrum deserves to have their struggles noted, without having to give indepth specifics to anyone else. When I've had shitty people kick off at me because my son isn't meeting social expectations, that person isn't owed his diagnosis, nor would they get it. I'm not arguing with someone about the neurodiversity my child who can't consent to telling anyone his personal information, but acknowledging he isn't typical isn't as invasive and the more people that use inclusive wording that isn't as clinical to me, helps with inclusion.

We can disagree as much as you want, but like pissing in a neighbours yard wont make yours any greener, trying to minimise those with less severe neuro diversity won't make my sons life any easier.

I hope that made sense.

I think you're wonderful. What an idiot your SIL is throwing away someone as fab as you over something so silly.

@ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine that's really lovely, thank you. A few posters here today have said some extremely kind things and I'm really appreciative 💐

I like spicy because it encompasses a whole group of us, could be korma, could be vindaloo, no spicynesses are the same x

God no. Her behaviour is horrible to all involved. You would be pretty shit yourself to pretend your own daughter doesn't exist to make her happy. Who comes first here.

I just don't like the term because it overlays the concept of spiciness (which I like) with my thoughts (which I also generally like). The implied combination would make my thoughts tingly like spicy food is and that sounds horrible to me. That is the only reason I hate it 😂

You do express yourself well OP!

Having thought about the OP some more, I think I would say this.

"I have a better idea. You're asking me to do you a favour. So how about you apologise for the way you have treated us and our daughter, and we put this silly argument behind us and move on, and then I will help you?"