Page 8 | 45mins is plenty for a 5yo to sit at a family lunch

ToryHater · 01/04/2024 22:15

Ah the cocomelon generation!
I think your expectations of the 6 year old are too low. They should be able to sit for teh duration of the meal.Why dont you try to pull them into the conversation, and then bring something for them to do at the table, or at least onlt let them get up between the main and teh pudding and have a short break.It is really rude for all of you to leave the table

Icehockeyflowers · 01/04/2024 22:22

I think forty five mins is enough at that age.

However....I find it strange (and rude) that both you and your DH left the table to play with the children. I think the adult whose sister was hosting should have stayed.

It isn't nice to receive a text like that from your family. I think for the sake of friendship and peace that you could explain that the setting wasn't suitable for the kids and had you known beforehand that you'd have sent DH on his own to enjoy the lovely meal. Don't accept further dinner/lunch invitations on behalf of the children.

theduchessofspork · 01/04/2024 22:58

You are being unreasonable in both leaving the table, which I suspect is the bit that really bothered your hosts

Rest is ok

HanaJane · 01/04/2024 23:19

YANBU sounds like your kids did fine, mine would have been similar at that age. Sounds like the lunch was totally geared towards adults and no thought given to the children, which is rude actually! I'm guessing the hosts don't have children?

Original poster

anxioussister · 01/04/2024 23:58

ToryHater · 01/04/2024 22:15

Ah the cocomelon generation!
I think your expectations of the 6 year old are too low. They should be able to sit for teh duration of the meal.Why dont you try to pull them into the conversation, and then bring something for them to do at the table, or at least onlt let them get up between the main and teh pudding and have a short break.It is really rude for all of you to leave the table

Ironically we don’t do screen time at all for our children - this felt like an occasion where maybe being an iPad using family might have made life easier for us…!

OP posts:

Original poster

anxioussister · 02/04/2024 00:10

Thanks for all your input - I take on board the piece from many PPs about both of us leaving the table being rude. With reflection we can recognize we were trying to escape the awkward family chat about bank holiday road closures. I was feeling extremely defensive of my children - who I are genuinely beautifully behaved most of the time. I think one of the reasons that people often comment about them being ‘good’ is because DH and I invest a lot of time in working to help support good manners to the best of their developmental age. Even if we got it wrong this time.

DH has smoothed things over with SIL. They love each other really + had a good chat about different stages of life / expectations / communicating better about what we all need. She’d like to know the children better but doesn’t feel very confident about talking to them.

We’ll go to the park with the children next time. And meet them for supper without children if we want wine and grown up food.

OP posts:

SharpLily · 02/04/2024 08:41

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 01/04/2024 11:32

I don’t mean for hours but at least for a reasonable time and engaging with parents and other diners. Otherwise this means kids are just fobbed off to play, watch TV, screens anything but interact with adults.

My grandad was continental (French/German) so he thought it was normal for children to be with adults at the dinner table. What’s wrong with that? Families all over Europe actually interact with children and talk to them at dinner tables.

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As someone who is half French and lives in Spain, I can assure you that's not the case! The children here are up and down from the table through the meal, because eating here is a very sociable experience and we sit at the table for hours. However yes, if the adults engage with the children then it's a better experience for everyone but that's not what we're talking about here - this is 'children should be seen but not heard' bullshit that fortunately most of us grew out of years ago.

Rosesanddaisies1 · 02/04/2024 08:43

I think one of you should have gone outside. But generally that’s not rude. The hosts shouldn’t have invited kids if they wanted a very formal meal.

SharpLily · 02/04/2024 08:45

WillYouPutYourCoatOn · 01/04/2024 15:55

This is exactly how it reads to me too.

They sound very different to OP. She's not interested in the way they do things. I love a four course Easter lunch all cooked for me and my family. (And in fact we were, 8 of us.) We used the correct cutlery too. I'm not sure what all the gasps about stuffiness for using the right fork are about. It's literally picking a fork up.

Our DTwins are 4, and asked to get down after each course. DH and I told them no, we wait for our meal to finish, we distracted them, people chatted to them, we made things out of the napkins, and they sat. It's less relaxing adult conversation for us, and more keeping them engaged, but this will ease each year as they mature.

However, a meal this time last year? No chance. So...we hosted at ours, every single time. Every Easter, mother's day, Christmas, whatever it was. For 3 and a half years. DTwins would not sit nicely at any table. So we didn't ruin other people's expensive restaurant meals by taking them somewhere we knew they didn't have the table manners for, and we did the entertaining here, so if they were being grouchy 18mth olds, or shouty two year olds, we could deal with it/put one to bed/one of us could disappear off with them, and we weren't affecting someone else trying to host.

My DC are far from perfect. I don't expect them to be. I think it's a real sad state of affairs though with a basic expectation such as table manners, that to so many, the very concept of table manners is seemingly lambasted with silly comments like "oh well sorry my kids aren't all perfect like yours". How low is the parenting bar for the very basics like table manners to be "perfect." FFS.

I think the hosts fall into the camp of having a basic expectation of table manners (certainly of adult OP and DH) and OP falls into the camp of thinking it's preposterous any of her family shouldn't be allowed to leave the table halfway through a main course, all go and sit in the garden, and return for pudding to be served to them, whilst everyone else sits at the table eating the meal that has been prepared for them.

I think as PP has picked up on, this will likely not be the only difference between how the hosts conduct themselves and how OP conducts herself, and it's come to a bit of a head. The thing that did it, I suspect, was both adults leaving their food, so four plates were left unfinished because both parents, went out to watch their children (one more than old enough to sit at a table) play, in the middle of a high effort home cooked meal. It's very rude of the hosts to call her up and highlight this though. It didn't need highlighting, everyone there had eyes.

OP and them are clearly a mismatch. She shouldn't go back, but not because they are arseholes, their expectations were not unreasonable, certainly of the adults. But because OP genuinely can't see the issue, and they can't comprehend how she can't see this. Just raised very differently to each other, and it's really incompatible, and it's likely to be a "thing" now it's been called.

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Did you actually read the OP's posts?

peakygold · 02/04/2024 08:52

A lovely formal family lunch was ruined by you and your husband allowing your kiddos to do whatever they wanted. I not surprised SIL is miffed, considering all the effort she must have put in to the occasion. Judging by your comments about the amount of cutlery, and the 'non child-friendly house", I'm guessing you were quite intimidated by the whole thing.

WhatAreYouOnAbout · 02/04/2024 08:52

anxioussister · 31/03/2024 20:48

Had an extended family Easter lunch today - 4 courses over 2 hours at my SIL’s house. My children 6 + 3 are the only children there - it’s not a very child friendly house - or set up. 15 people at a very formal table with lots of cutlery - host has (utterly madly in my oppinion) laid out formal cuttlery for the children to have four courses as well…

they were polite through the starter - no one was making any effort to engage them in conversation and were visibly frustrated that my husband was focussed on them. the children made it about 10 mins into the main course after which 6yo quietly asked if they could be excused to to their sticker book + colouring in the next room. 3yo follows soon after - has a backpack with trains + duplo in. All is quiet for another 30 mins.

the children have been so good - they have also been playing independently for ages by little people standards. They would like to go into the garden for a while to play. DH and I have finished our main courses + excuse ourselves to play in the sunshine. There are 11 other adults at the table who all know each other.

we came in for pudding. Helped tidy up, chatted for a bit and then left as other people were leaving.

I’ve just had a long message from the hosts telling us they were shocked by how rude we were - and that we need to teach our children to participate better in family events.

I know I’m not BU really but please soothe my outraged soul…

YABU - your children should have sat longer at the table

YANBU - this sounds fine - family are being mad.

I know how annoyed you must feel. They don’t get it and possibly never will cos they don’t have children. You’re a modern and good mamma responding to your child’s needs. Nevermind them. This year we spent Easter alone. We used to spend it and Xmas with family but it’s just too stressful. Have stopped caring what people think, or but boundaries around all visits 45min to 1 hour. That’s definitely enough for people without children.

Keeva2017 · 02/04/2024 09:01

@Arrestedmanevolence same!

AGodawfulsmallaffair · 02/04/2024 10:06

drspouse · 31/03/2024 20:55

Your children sound lovely! Did they expect them to discuss Gaza or the upcoming general election?

Ha! Yes, they do sound lovely, The hosts sound insane and incredibly rude to ignore the little ones. Have they never met any children ?
I’d be planning a scathing response.

Italiandreams · 02/04/2024 10:15

peakygold · 02/04/2024 08:52

A lovely formal family lunch was ruined by you and your husband allowing your kiddos to do whatever they wanted. I not surprised SIL is miffed, considering all the effort she must have put in to the occasion. Judging by your comments about the amount of cutlery, and the 'non child-friendly house", I'm guessing you were quite intimidated by the whole thing.

The OP has said that they could have taken it in turns to go outside, but other than that I fail to see what else could be criticised! The children sat nicely for 45 which is a perfectly reasonable amount of time then played nicely, under the watchful eye of a parent. If the children were expected to be there, they will behave like ( well behaved in this case) children! I don’t think the OP was necessarily intimidated, but could see how difficult it was going to be for the children to cope.

LegoDeathTrap · 02/04/2024 10:15

YANBU.

I always find it strange when kids are invited only to be ignored. A 6yo and a 3yo can be asked about his favourite dinosaur, told about who is who in the party (“did you know grandma is actually Dad’s Mum??”), and told stories about funny thing Aunty did when she was little. There is a way to make a connection. Don’t need to limit the topics to M25 closures, which everyone except old pontificating men would find soul numbingly dull.

BogRollBOGOF · 02/04/2024 10:28

Adults tend to last such long meals on wine. Children have to get through them sober.

The children did well. As the only children present, the 6yo will naturally behave down the needs of a 3yo, especially if the wider family ignore them.

There's been many family meals where DS reached his limit long before dessert. He's autistic so has continued to reach his social limit earlier than average and has a practical attitude to eating. When his stomach is sorted after the main course, he's ready to go. It's supposed to be a social occasion, and ending up in other rooms/ outside on your own for the benefit of the rest of the adults present sucks. I think its nice that the parenting load in awkward circumstances was shared.

The hosts set-up wasn't practical and it was rude to criticise OP for trying to balance the incompatible needs of young children and inflexible adults.

PaperDoIIs · 02/04/2024 10:57

peakygold · 02/04/2024 08:52

A lovely formal family lunch was ruined by you and your husband allowing your kiddos to do whatever they wanted. I not surprised SIL is miffed, considering all the effort she must have put in to the occasion. Judging by your comments about the amount of cutlery, and the 'non child-friendly house", I'm guessing you were quite intimidated by the whole thing.

How is sitting down and eating (while ignored by everyone bar their parents), then playing independently and quietly for a while after asking to be excused, then going outside for a bit doing "whatever they wanted"?

The kids behaved beautifully, there is no question on that. OP and her husband messed up by "escaping " together, but she already acknowledged that.

Whatifthehokeycokey · 02/04/2024 12:45

SIL was basically setting up your kids to fail. Even the Royal family don't have little children join them for formal meals.