45mins is plenty for a 5yo to sit at a family lunch

[anxioussister]

Had an extended family Easter lunch today - 4 courses over 2 hours at my SIL’s house. My children 6 + 3 are the only children there - it’s not a very child friendly house - or set up. 15 people at a very formal table with lots of cutlery - host has (utterly madly in my oppinion) laid out formal cuttlery for the children to have four courses as well…

they were polite through the starter - no one was making any effort to engage them in conversation and were visibly frustrated that my husband was focussed on them. the children made it about 10 mins into the main course after which 6yo quietly asked if they could be excused to to their sticker book + colouring in the next room. 3yo follows soon after - has a backpack with trains + duplo in. All is quiet for another 30 mins.

the children have been so good - they have also been playing independently for ages by little people standards. They would like to go into the garden for a while to play. DH and I have finished our main courses + excuse ourselves to play in the sunshine. There are 11 other adults at the table who all know each other.

we came in for pudding. Helped tidy up, chatted for a bit and then left as other people were leaving.

I’ve just had a long message from the hosts telling us they were shocked by how rude we were - and that we need to teach our children to participate better in family events.

I know I’m not BU really but please soothe my outraged soul…

YABU - your children should have sat longer at the table

YANBU - this sounds fine - family are being mad.

I know that my dgc struggle to stay seated quiety for lengthy periods so we design our 'adult' meals around them too.

If we're having a starter it will be something that we can all graze on in the kitchen so dgc can still be playing. Then have main course plated and ready to go before we ask them to sit at the table (they are expected to wait until everyone is served before they tuck in). If the main course is going on for others then dgc can get down and play quietly, then back up for pudding. Then more wine / cheese and biscuits is a casual ending, eaten at the table or in the garden or in the kitchen.

Yeah I think that you both got up to go play in the garden is the bit that I think was rude. There was no reason for you both to go.

But I agree your relative had unrealistic expectations.

Don't know if you are ahead of me on this, but we found it helped to get the wriggles out before they even got to the table. Mine went out to restaurants with GPs and great GPs from very young but we'd always find a park before we met up with them.

A stroll out after lunch doesn't hurt either, even if not everyone can come. You can split the party for an hour and reconvene for cups of tea.

It's like with school, they do sit for periods but you structure the rest of the day round it to make that easier for them. Especially if they are also spending an hour or two sitting in the car. (The car journeys are arguably quite good training for sitting at the table, especially if they don't have screens.)

My DGC cannot and will not sit at the dining table for longer than 10 mins ! They wouldn’t have been impressed with her dare say , lol . But anyway, your kids were good , but I agree that you both didn’t need to leave the table . Tag team wound have worked .

Not necessarily but we did it. It teaches children to think of others and not just themselves.

I think you’re exactly right. And I recognise that my husband and I probably shouldn’t have both left the table with them - but when no one else is making any effort at all to include them it feels a bit lonely!

I feel sad that they insisted they really wanted the children to come - they couldn’t wait to see them etc - and then 🤷🏼‍♀️… lessons firmly learned

I don’t mean for hours but at least for a reasonable time and engaging with parents and other diners. Otherwise this means kids are just fobbed off to play, watch TV, screens anything but interact with adults.

My grandad was continental (French/German) so he thought it was normal for children to be with adults at the dinner table. What’s wrong with that? Families all over Europe actually interact with children and talk to them at dinner tables.

And who at that table was thinking of them?
It's not only on children to respect adults.

Actually you’re right, my grandad was a bit selfish and talked a lot about himself and probably not much attention was given to us. But I can’t say it harmed us.

Absolutely. No one has ever died of boredom, and building up an ability to cope with it will serve them well in later life.

Yanbu.
The kids sound just fine. And nothing wrong with stepping away for a bit to give them attention.

Your SIL sounds way too stuffy and uptight!

I wouldnt be accepting an invitation from her again anytime soon.

Dinners at family are supposed to be fun and light. Not boring and rigid.

@anxioussister I suspected that both of you leaving the table was more of an opportunity for both of you to escape rather than need. Not that I blame you.

You (or your husband) can apologise for that -if you want to- while reiterating that in fact your kids were not the problem and that they were well behaved.

All of my kids could sit at a table at that age, I can assure you I wasn't hallucinating, regardless of what sort of mental health slurs you want to throw around over a reasonable expectation

@mrsdineen2 no one has ever died from letting kids leave the table either.

I have ADHD - your kids lasted longer at a formal dinner table than I would have! You’re not being remotely unreasonable.

No three year old can sit at a table with nothing to do for 2 hours, absolutely do not believe it. I have a really well behaved older one, who would have sat for a reasonable time ant that ahe and would love to interact with the other adults. But at three, two hours, being ignored by everyone except her dad. No way. My youngest, hahaha!

At 3 years old no child can be left unsupervised for that long. Dint be ridiculous. If they spilt something or marked the furniture by mistake everyone would be on at the parents for being so stupid.

I must admit with my grandad - he used to bore us with tales of his idyllic Bavaria upbringing and thank god my stepgrandmother was there to lighten the mood and pay us attention!

When we did go to see our nana, we did have sit down meals, but she cleverly ordered us comics from when we were young, and we were allowed after eating to read these quietly. Far more relaxed there though!

But there really is no harm in at least trying to have children sit for a while at the table but having adults interact with them is the key, or getting children to join in the conversation too. A highlight of this was last summer when DB and SIL back from family summer holiday with inlaws and SIL's DB and his family. We'd just had dinner and suddenly DNephew (5) regaled us with after we asked him if he'd enjoyed his French holiday "and mummy and uncle Richard had a fight, and mummy got angry and shouted and said she never wanted to see Uncle Richard again and he was a selfish bastard" (this was true!) (DNephew had been in his bedroom in the holiday villa but obvs had overheard!) - we all had to calm him down and say "it's ok, sometimes adults say things they don't mean" and his DM was dying of embarrassment and probably wished he'd been playing on his ipad.

Ok. That’s not what I took from your posts. You said:

“One little one is 6. They will be sitting at a desk all day at school and writing paragraphs independently.”

And that “Y1 in England was very much sitting at desks.”

Which it isn’t. Or not if it’s done right. I read it as you saying the six yo should be able to sit for two hours because they do at school. They don’t. That would be incredibly bad practice.

Mine have always had comments on their good manners and sitting quietly at the table so I do have expectations that kids can sit for a meal but Christ on a bike, that would not extend to 4 courses at 6 and 3 years old with no-one really engaging with them at all. They'd be climbing the bloody walls!

And they DID go and do a quiet activity in the other room, for quite a while, it seems. You can't expect children that young to entertain themselves for hours and hours in an unfamiliar house, not many toys etc. I think they did really well tbh.

Tbh, as an adult, I don't think I would want to stay at a dinner table for 2 whole hours if nobody was engaging with me and if I was unable to participate in the general conversation, e.g. if everyone else was speaking a language that I couldn't understand. It sounds pretty miserable to me, so I don't blame your kids for deciding that they had had enough.

The really rude behaviour was from everyone else around the table who failed to include everyone present.

@Motherofpearlxoxo

lol

My kids might have made it to the end of a 2 hour trip out to a restaurant.

Big BUT we would have been engaging them the whole time laughing and joking, like we play table games like “favourite thing” etc. Second big addendum is their innate personalities/skills. For a 3 year old to tell you then need a break to help them maintain being a delight at a family dinner is great and we have practiced that a lot also! To sit ignored and last 45 minutes is a testament to your parenting, your children’s good natures and great manners!

I don't have kids and this sounds perfect to me. I've sat through too many meals where the kids are kicking out, knocking things over, yelling, whining, tugging on sleeves to get attention because they're forced to sit there or aren't independent enough to think to go and do their own thing.

It's their time as well, they should be able to go and play quietly themselves rather than trying to please some random adults for no reason.

In England KS1 school day is barely 6 hours long and includes lunch and two breaks.
The actual time sat at desks will be at the very most 4 hours broken down unto no more than an hour at a time.....and they will be engaged an an age appropriate activity during those periods.