Kids in changing room at gym

[Snowypony]

Yesterday I was running late for my aqua gym class

i already had my swimming costume on under my clothes

i I ran in the changing rooms and there was a boy in there who was taller than me

i didn’t have time to question the Mum - he had clearly started puberty. He watched me get changed which left me very uncomfortable

i I got in the pool and my friend saw I was a bit upset and asked why. I explained and said the boy was about 12. There are no changing rooms at my gym - it’s just benches so you have to get naked when changing

my friend went over and spoke to the Mun who got really angry and said he’s entitled to be in there he’s only 11

when I got out they’re left but I still went and complained to the gym staff.

I don’t have a ds only dd so I’ve never had this issue. But is it reasonable to expect an 11 year old to use their own sex changing room?

Nobody has said that disabled mums need to "get out of everyone's way".

What they've said is that disability (of mum or boy) does not entitle a person to override the rules applying to a single-sex space.

I wouldn't be comfortable with my 11 year old in a male changing room, however, it is unacceptable for them to be in a woman changing room. Nor would I put my son in a position where he is at risk being accused on being inappropriate.

Absolutely not ok.
Our gym say no children of the opposite sex over 7 and tbh when they're have been 6/7 year old boys in there when I have been I've felt a bit self conscious however I do understand even though my little one is only 2.
Every right to speak to the manager

My mind has been clear from the start . I have said nothing contradictory. I clearly do not have an issue with the female space being cleared so a disabled female can change with a male carer it is the assumption from some that it is always the female space that is adjusted and never the male space.

Except if the disabled woman has a male carer- then they can have accommodations made and the male carer can be in the female space.

Except if the disabled woman has a male carer- then they can have accommodations made and the male carer can be in the female space.

Once the female space has been cleared. Same way a male person with a female carer can ask for the male space to be cleared.
It seems reasonable & workable solutions are not good enough for you. Your agenda seems to be males in female spaces regardless of all else and it is women & girls who must always accommodate.
What is wrong with men & boys sharing the responsibility of caring for societies vulnerable people?

How do I get it through to you? I don't want your son in my changing room, regardless of what threat he does or doesn't pose.

And, if push comes to shove, I'll see your 10" of paperwork and raise you 10". Let's see who wins. Your reasonable adaptation does not involve the female changing rooms.

It's my hill and I'll die on it.

I clearly do not have an issue with the female space being cleared so a disabled female can change with a male carer

Up until this point you have repeated that female spaces should not be cleared so males can enter under any circumstances.

When it was pointed out that there can be situations where it is not black and white, you have repeated that there are not.

You have said that disabled people should plan better, not go to venues or leave if the venue doesn’t meet their needs, rather than a female space being made available.

Now you are saying it’s fine for female spaces to be cleared for male carers to enter. So, finally you have realised that there are in fact situations where it is not black and white.

It seems reasonable & workable solutions are not good enough for you.

I am not the one who has repeated and repeated ‘no male in any female space ever’, or said that the female space shouldn’t be cleared, or that the situation is always black and white.

Ive and several other posters have said that

if the management clears a space- whichever space they choose- then it’s reasonable for the disabled person to use that space.

The decision is (in my experience) made on which space is less busy in that moment.

You are the one who said people with disabled family members should not go to places where this might become an issue because it’s never ok to inconvenience a woman in a woman’s space

until you changed your mind 10 minutes ago.

Up until this point you have repeated that female spaces should not be cleared so males can enter under any circumstances.

No I haven't. I have repeatedly said female spaces should not be the default option and that male spaces can & should equally be adjusted.

When it was pointed out that there can be situations where it is not black and white, you have repeated that there are not.

Again no I haven't. What I have said is tbe female space is not the default or only option/solution.

You have said that disabled people should plan better, not go to venues or leave if the venue doesn’t meet their needs, rather than a female space being made available.

Of course they should plan better!
Why would anyone want to visit a venue that cannot cater for their needs thus making it more stressful for themselves? The female space is not the only space you know this right?

Now you are saying it’s fine for female spaces to be cleared for male carers to enter. So, finally you have realised that there are in fact situations where it is not black and white.

Sigh..Again my position is and has always been that the female space is not the default space. That male spaces are available too for adjustment. Nowhere have I said a disabled female cannot use the female space.

You are the one who said people with disabled family members should not go to places where this might become an issue because it’s never ok to inconvenience a woman in a woman’s space

And you are back to making things up again.

I said if a venue cannot meet your needs then no you should not visit because it is the disabled person who will be knowingly disadvantaged.

If you visit knowing the venue will need to close off the female space to allow a male in then that is totally wrong as you are knowingly taking women & girls access away.

Nowhere have I said a disabled female cannot use the female space.

You told me exactly that.

I am a female, with a female carer- but if I need to use the toilet/changing room (where a unisex accessible one isn’t available), you told me I can’t use the women’s because I have ds10 with me (who can’t be left unaccompanied at any time).

BUT it now turns out that it would be a/ok for me to use the women’s facilities if I had chosen a male carer- then everyone would make an exception.

You told me exactly that.

No I didn't. I said you cannot use it if you are taking your over age son in there so stop lying.

You can as a female access female spaces your male 10 yo cannot.

Your male carer can access the female space as long as the space has been cleared. Should your son need support to use the male space then you can get the male space cleared if his carer is female.

How do I know what the manager will decide to do at any given moment?! ITS NOT UP TO ME WHICH SPACE THEY CLOSE!

It’s up to me to check the facilities before we go- I can’t control what happens once we are there that means the accessible facilities are not available. They can be closed at a moments notice for a million reasons I can’t do anything about.

Its down to which is quiet usually, but on occasion the fact its 2 grown women and one male child might make the manager decide the female space is appropriate for us.

As I said what's wrong is the female space beingbused as the default position and not always by you. Have you tried requesting a male space when you are in these situations?

Let’s take this real life example- we go swimming- me disabled woman, DW able bodied woman, ds disabled 9 year old.

Place we have been before- wheelchair access, changing places room with the accessible toilet in it.

Get there, change, swim- all good.

Get out to get dressed- prepared for a possible wait for a bit because there is only one acceptable changing spaces room so obviously someone else might be in it.

However- it is shut. While we were swimming someone put some type of continence aid down the toilet. It’s backed up and has to remain locked until it’s fixed and specialist cleaner comes.

So manager goes off, does whatever they do, and comes back saying ‘we have closed the ladies for you to change quickly’.

There isn’t another accessible loo- the closed room is the only one.

What is the appropriate response from me?

Should I tell the manager to go back and close the mens instead because I have ds10 with me?

Baring in mind, if my carer was a man not a woman you have said it’s fine for me to use the ladies.

I’ll take any space in an emergency- I’m not precious! The mens are gross and smell but if that’s what’s offered that’s what I’ll take!

Your discomfort to send your son into such a changing room doesn't give you the right to take him into a female changing room, especially if, as the OP says, this particular boy also stared. I'd have asked him what he was looking at and made sure his mother knew!

This is why I think mixed sex spaces with individual cubicles are so much better (I know some MNers don't like them). I don't like stripping off in front of other women either - I know some women don't mind letting it all hang out!

Hopefully such emergencies are not often.

Exactly.
I am actually really quite annoyed that some posters are trying to shame those who are standing up for women's spaces by falsely accusing them of being against disabled folk.

And if your opposite sex child has special needs, you use the disabled changing room.

If it's not available, you ask if there is somewhere else available - eg at my leisure centre there are wet (mixed) areas and dry single sex areas so you might be able to get changed in the mixed swimming area if the dry changing room wasn't free.

Most leisure centres have a family area, or an area for clubs/teams to change as well as the main changing areas.

There are usually options which do not involve making women feel uncomfortable.

Mine is 10 and has SEN.

He extremely vulnerable in areas like this and his SW has said he shouldn’t go in public toilets or changing room alone. He does not understand intent or if someone asked to touch him etc so he comes in with us, but he knows not to look and not to stare and eyes down and he doesn’t expose himself. However, he gets in his swimming costume before we go and gets straight in. He goes in a cubicle to change in the ladies. And gets dressed and he walk out of the cubicle and waits at the main entrance with the staff until myself and my sister are ready.

surely the gym like our pool would be better having men / women and also family.

at a different pool I go to this is the situation and it works well. The family section is like a series of showers with shower curtains to pull across and then back. Doesn’t cost much but works well.

Unfortunately ours does not have one. It’s always locked or in use as it is single occupancy

What is the appropriate response from me?

You could have asked that the men's be closed to allow your DW to care for your son in the male space.

Should I tell the manager to go back and close the mens instead because I have ds10 with me?

See above

Baring in mind, if my carer was a man not a woman you have said it’s fine for me to use the ladies.

You can always use the ladies and if your carer is female of course they can use the space so what are you on about?
As I said if the person is female and the carer male then the female space should be cleared.

What is your problem with these very suitable reasonable adjustments?

Completely wrong of you.

If your son needs support then use the accessible/family space. You have no right to take your son in to the female space.